Why all the craziness regarding crossdraw

[sigp220.45]

I think a good number of old time cops carried their 6" duty guns in plainclothes. Both of the Onion Field cops carried six inch guns in civvies, one a Smith and the other a Colt. True they were disarmed, but it was at gunpoint and not because of a sneaky grab. They were both in crossdraw holsters, probably because it was easier to clear that long barrel with the grip positioned above belt level. In uniform the strong side holster would have some drop to it.

The LAPD detective below (from the book Death Scenes - A Homicide Detective's Notebook) is toting his 6 incher lefty crossdraw. I hope he slid it back a bit for the photo, but even if he didn't it apparently worked for him.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

I've had several holsters made specifically for crossdraw. The feel is good -- comfortable -- and I'm proficient with those revolvers, a 547 3" and a 460 snubby, but I only carry those in the woods.

I have tried to put my strong side (right hand) J-frame pancake on the left as a crossdraw -- no go -- even at 11 o'clock the cant puts the grip too far back for me.

I suppose anyone can teach themself to carry any way with enough practice.

 

[upcountry]

My issue with cross draw is that, much like horizontal shoulder rigs, is that under pressure or stress, during the draw you would be sweeping anyone behind you or beside you. It's the muzzle issue.
When I was doing CCW classes in NM, I used an ad from Galco for the Miami Classic as a do-not-do example. In the ads photo, the guys left hand is pushing his wife and infant behind him while his right hand is drawing his pistol, sweeping them.

 

[Rastoff]

...is that a big deal if it works for him?

I have no issues with it whatsoever.

I've seen a lot of people carry in a lot of strange ways. As I stated before, as long as those people know the limitations and risks involved with that style of carry and train/practice for it, more power to them.

 

[CH4]

I carry crossdraw or in a shoulder rig if I am going to be sitting a lot, e.g., driving, movie theater, etc. The only crossdraw I have is a Mernikle for a 5" 1911.

 

[gboling]

The greatest concern about cross draw is you sweep the muzzle across the person standing to your side at the range.

Very few public ranges will allow live fire from the holster at all: those few that do usually prohibit cross draw.

You hear the same drivel about shoulder holsters. When working out of uniform those two were my primaries. Shoulder in a suit and cross draw without the suit. The shoulder holster was vertical not horizontal.

It is not necessary to sweep anything but the ground beside you and the target in front. When in plain clothes I always qualified with those two carry methods for 28 years. We were required to qualify with what we carried on duty and that was occasionally a 2 inch revolver.

 

[1sailor]

I hear the argument about sweeping the muzzle a lot also. I can't imagine how. I think I would have to do it intentionally and even then it would be difficult. Bare in mind I have only carried a 2" snubby and on a couple of occasions a Shield45 this way. Still it would be very difficult to sweep anything unintentionally. I sometimes wonder if people have gotten this idea from watching movies or something. I don't see how I could even do it accidentally. Perhaps it could be done if the holster was oriented horizontally but otherwise it would be difficult.

 

[NovaJoe]

Thanks to my college-aged-son's DUI, I got to spend a few hours in a courthouse in rural Virginia, and got to see several Deputy Sheriffs each carrying at least 2 handguns. (1) Duty-sized autoloader in normal 3-4 o'clock OWB, and (2) snubby in crossdraw, 11:30 or so.

 

[keith44spl]

I like crossdraw and typically carry on my property or on the river canoeing in that fashion. However, it does enable an adversary within arms reach to get to your weapon before you do. It is "fool's carry".

Well, thar ya go boys!!!

I did not know that.....

And all this time, I've been swappin' my pistol from the strong side to the cross-draw mexican IWB when approaching a urinal.

Now I find out I was jest foolin' around.

.

 

[Borderboss]

The whole issue of sweeping with crossdraw or horizontal shoulder holster is just so much nonsense. Every mode of carry sweeps the gun at something when being drawn. It's a non-issue if you draw the gun properly, which is with your finger off the trigger until you're on target.

The wearing of a pancake holster with the belt outside the holster has been advocated for decades if you want to pull the gun up tight against the body. Roy Baker himself advocated it.

To the OP, the only thing I would probably suggest is a thumb break on the holster. I'm not a fan of an open top holster without a positive retention method. But that's just me.

 

[Porkie]

Amplifying my commentary on "Do you carry more than one gun, etc... I Generally carry my SIG 229 DAK on my strong side, appendix fashion in a straight draw Ryan Grizzell holster. IF I carry a second gun it will be in a cross draw holster, typically a .44 Special with a 3 1/2 barrel. The holster is an old hand carved Messican Viking.

I have no plan to engage in quick draw with either one of them, taking the Texas Ranger view that if I think I'm going to need the dam* thing, it'll be in my hand. It should be obvious the S&W, being the backup, won't be in a hurry either.

Regards, Porkie

 

[fredj338]

My Dad was a Highway Patrolman in the 50's through 70's. They carried cross draw with a flap. I wore a Jordan holster with a strap on a swivel. I asked my Dad why they carried that way, and he replied that as a one-person unit, they transported prisoners in the front seat and they wanted to keep the gun as far away from the prisoner as possible. At different times I've carried crossdraw. I've worn a ******* Rig shoulder holster which is essentially crossdraw. The important thing about finding yourself in a situation where a gun is needed is to bring a gun.

Yet the opp of that is when interviewing a person you are giving the direct access to your gun, especially with zero or minimal retention. Not sure when rear seat dividers went into use in LEA cars, but back then, I could see the point, sort of. Especially since many tactics that are common today were unheard of in the 50-60s, like cuffing behind the suspects back.

 

[rwsmith]

Because of my body shape.....

I prefer a shoulder holster under my left arm. Things at belt level are really problematic for me. I would like to carry otherwise, but it's pretty much dictated to me.

 

[CB3]

I understand and agree with the comments, "If it works . . ."

But frankly, I would like to see cross draw at 9-10 o'clock with a reverse cant work quickly and smoothly under duress. It has to be slow to reach all the way across the body, get under the covering garment, grip the gun and pull it backwards up out of the holster, reverse direction and bring it forward all the way across the body, stop the swing at the correct point and bring it up to a shooting position. That's a lot of movement telegraphing your intentions. Distance = time.

So, you can do it, but is it really the best method or just one you decided to stick with? Have you really explored other more common options? Like cross draw at 11 with a cant toward the buckle?

 

[BAM-BAM]

There's a big difference between being shoulder to shoulder on a range qualifying or target shooting and being alone out it Penn's Woods.

All horizontal shoulder holsters should be banned ...... they sweep the whole room on a moment to moment basis...... just thinking about "social distancing" at the supermarket checkout line makes my .......pucker!

Speaking of which... as Kieth44spl points out....... you shouldn't use a public restroom urinal if you're strong side carrying........can't think of a more vulnerable position to find yourself in!!!!! If challenged any reaction is going to cause one to really "sweep" the room!!!!!


There's a reason most of us have a "Big Box-O-Holsters"

I tend to carry a 3913/6906 at 4 O'clock IWB over 90% or the time ..... the other 5-10% of the time.... a speciality holster that better meets my needs at the time.

 

[jimmyj]

When I was a range officer anyone using cross draw I put on the left end position. Then they were not "Sweeping" other shooters.

 

[Chubbs103]

I tend to avoid these discussions because they often degrade into name calling and hurt feelings. Regardless...

This topic was discussed in a weapon retention course I took some time ago (training I highly recommend for anyone who carries a firearm).

As explained to me, the retention issue with cross-draw is not about someone running up and taking a snatch at your weapon. Strong side is vulnerable from the rear in this case. Cross-draw is vulnerable from the front. Properly concealed, neither should happen. Additionally, a little situation awareness goes a long way.

In a tussle with the weapon holstered, however, cross-draw has the potential to be a liability (assumption is the attacker is right handed). Face to face during the fight, my attacker has an easier time reaching out and achieving a firing grip on my pistol. Conversely, I have a harder time locking the pistol down in the holster with my strong hand if it is carried cross-draw. If I decide to present and fire from retention (position 2), this is easier to accomplish from the strong side (especially if I am belly-to-belly with the other person).

I'm retired now and only carry on my own time. The only time I open carry is while hunting. Sometimes I prefer cross-draw. The rest of the time I carry concealed and old habits are hard to break. To each their own.

 

[jim lock]

I absolutely agree with 1Sailor and others, with practice (did mine in front of a mirror) any sweeping can be completely elininated. In fact my left hand can pull my jacket or shirt out of the way for safe drawing. Practicing at home in front a mirror for correct discipline and then dry fire at possibly a silhouette target is a great way to practice. I'm assuming you know the gun is unloaded.
Jim

 

[keith44spl]

I almost always use CD when ahorseback....

Out of the way to handle a rope and I can draw my sidearm with either hand.



(Tried to get Ol' Yellowdog to do a Hi-Ho Silver for the picture...
But he wasn't have any of it.)


.

 

[4011]

Snubbyfan made a cross draw for me. It has a reverse tilt. Instead of tilt forward as a strong side it lays back at the same tilt as the strong side. Makes cross draw a breeze. Easy to hide easy to drive. Only thing I do when driving is to uncover the weapon. Should I be stopped by the police I have my hands on the wheel till he gets to the car window. Then I tell him I have it and let him decide how he wants to proceed! Last time he said cool. Then checked my info and we parted company.

 

[Buick]

"An invitation to disaster"

Looks like its not recommended by some expert gunfighters for law enforcement applications.

 

[Dvan34]

I agree with you. They can access your pistol from behind you just as easily or more than from cross draw. I carried cross draw for years as a Customs officer working in crowds. You don't want to have someone behind you when you are searching a car. As far as drawing having reach your pistol holstered on your strong side takes just as long as from a cross draw. Plus you can have your hand naturally positioned across your waist to where it is easy to draw without giving your intention away. Also blocking access with your strong arm. Go with what feels good to you and practice, practice. It isn't likely you will need to be a fast draw. If you draw too fast you might regret it. Use your head. Be alert.

 

[max503]

If crossdraw is vulnerable to a front snatch, how is 3 or 4 o'clock not vulnerable to a rear snatch? Even 1 or 2 o'clock could be snatched. I know a woman who was robbed in broad daylight in a busy parking lot. The guy came up and gave her a hard body block from the rear.

 

[fatcat3]

My arms are too short for crossdraw.... NO IT'S NOT THAT I'M FAT

 

[Rustyt1953]

I pocket carry so If someone manages to reach in and grab my pistol they'd better buy me dinner first.

 

[lrrifleman]

Sorry, but I need to add my two cents.

I think part of the concern over not drawing from a shoulder holster or crossdraw holster goes hand-in-hand with the rise in popularity of the action pistol games where the shooter is ultimately trying to beat the clock. In this situation, it isn't just the person behind and to the left of the shooter being swept by the muzzle, but also the shooter themselves.

In the quest for the fastest time starting from the leather, the question has to be, when does the trigger finger discipline transition to trigger engagement? When I started shooting PPC in the '90s, I was allowed to use an open trigger holster, that is now prohibited at many matches.

Looking at this from a range officer's perspective, I can envision a semi-auto being a bit more touchy, (and if an SA auto the thumb safety getting clicked off) and a trigger finger engaging the trigger before the muzzle is pointed safely down range as the shooter tried to outshoot Jerry Michulek!

Two questions need to be answered honestly by the person drawing from either a shoulder holster or crossdraw:
1) where in the entirety of the draw is your support arm/hand, and
2) in the adrenaline fueled excitement, when does your trigger finger discipline stop?

Don't get me wrong, I can see a time and place for drawing from a shoulder holster or crossdraw holster. I am not against the practice, just trying to offer an explanation as to why the practice is discouraged.

 

[Donn]

Said it before, you can "what if" yourself into never leaving the house. If cross draw works for you, roll with it.

 

[GyMac]

I've been carrying cross draw lately as my strong side shoulder has been hurting and it's difficult to draw from that side.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I would have a cross draw holster for my model 36 but they just aren't popular enough to have a good selection. A custom made holster would be the only option and I don't know any holster makers. Always preferred OC shoulder holsters for heavier pistols and revolvers and cross draw for CC. But then what do I know.

People are like sheep. Mostly they believe whatever they read or what trainers tell them. The mantra has been that cross draw is bad for awhile now. I'm really not sure where that got started. Probably the same place that shotguns are best for home defense. The internet probably killed the cross draw holster.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I pocket carry so If someone manages to reach in and grab my pistol they'd better buy me dinner first.

Playing hard to get doesn't always work.