Why are people shedding 9's?

[SgtLumpy]

... We will live and die by our choices...

Actually, may I suggest -

The overwhelming majority of us won't "live or die by our choices". Rather, we will "feel safe or not safe because of/despite of our choices". We won't actually be faced with the horror of firing in anger. Instead we'll conceptualize about "Chillin at the partay with our homeez, protected by our fotay".

"I shot and killed a guy last night"

""Oh really. Who was it?""

"Some dirtbag who wanted to rob me"

""That's wonderful. You probably feel great.""

"No, I don't"


Sgt Lumpy

 

[CatSnipah]

You are lucky. Don't let my wife know! She wasn't happy when she found out Walmart's new shipment of ammo did not include any 380. They are out and have been for weeks now.

The internet is your friend. Lots of 380 available online. Look at the right time and in the right places, and you can find it much cheaper than you would at local Walmarts and LGSs.

 

[MOONDAWG]

In my neck of the woods, it's going in the other direction.

The last year's patch of panic buying got more folks to focus on the fact that "there are no magic bullets or calibers".

The cheaper more readily available 9 mm gets the nod...

 

[Darkenfast]

9mm Parabellum is my only caliber. After decades of reading garbage in the gun media and on the internet, I've decided that any decent handgun in any decent caliber will do just fine. It's all up to you. I happen to own two good nines.

 

[Fastbolt]

There's been a trend that seems to have been developing within the LE field, which is the "return" to the 9mm.

Reportedly, the papers to authorize the program to transition the FBI from .40 back to 9mm is sitting on someone's desk, awaiting final approval. The largest PD still uses it (NYPD) and the nation's largest SO (LASD) is remaining with it, although replacing their aging inventory of Beretta's with M&P 9's over the course of the next 5 years. Texas DPS is going to be issuing M&P 9's to new recruits, and allowing existing troopers to either keep using their SIG .357's, or switch over to the M&P 9.

Expect to see more agencies going back to 9's for their own reasons.

Also, it's not been uncommon for some time to have heard how used .40's have been easier to find than used 9's on the commercial market.

I finally started to see this occur at my former agency once it started allowing folks to buy their own duty weapons from an approved list of 3 major manufacturers, and could choose either 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 (up until now the choices had been either .40 or .45).

I've even seen some very experienced instructors, who were long time 1911 enthusiasts & users, start to switch over to 9mm weapons. The answer was usually as simple as that for duty purposes, the higher capacity of the 9's was appealing. (These sames folks usually still chose to carry lower capacity, smaller weapons off-duty, though.)

Although I'd been required to carry either an issued .40 or .45 prior to my retirement, if I'd been offered the chance, I'd have continued to have carried that 6906 I had to give up several years ago. (FWIW, I was carrying an issued 4513TSW at the time of my retirement.)

 

[CoMF]

The only reason I got rid of my G19 was because I no longer felt I had a personal need for double stack autoloading handguns, not because I felt the caliber was "inadequate." If I ever change my mind somewhere down the road and decide I want to buy another pistol, it'll be a 9x19 Parabellum.

 

[GKC]

I wish more people around here were shedding 9's. I'm shopping for one! Unfortunately just about every one that comes up for sale lately seems to be either a former Soviet or Chinese military piece that won't reliably feed hollow points (RNFMJ only) OR one of the tupperware guns. I already have one that is half plastic, and want one that has a metal frame. Not many all metal 9's on the market around here lately.

You might want to look at the TriStar guns at Academy Sports. The C-100 is an imported Canik clone of the CZ75, and the T-100 is the Canik clone of the Baby Eagle/Jericho. They get very good reviews, and Academy has them priced at $329 and $349 respectively.

 

[vigil617]

I must be either way ahead of, or else way behind, the times.

I just bought my first true 9mm last month: a 3913 TSW no-rail.

It was peer pressure, really. Many respected friends here on the Forum speak of this particular Third Gen with a reverence normally reserved for moms, apple pie, and America.

I am very happy with how it shoots, though!

Coincidentally, I got out of the 40 S&W business this month after choosing to stick with 9mm, 45ACP, and my sentimental favorite, 356TSW.

 

[oneminute]

I sold all of my 9mms in 2013 to finance a large purchase. I never really shot them and I don't plan on buying anymore. Not because I think poorly of the caliber or anything. I just get more enjoyment and satisfaction from shooting my revolvers.
I traded a little over 1k rounds of 9mm for a model 49 this week and couldn't be happier with that!

The only semi auto I have now is my issued .40 SIG P229

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[66snub]

I was recently speaking to a coworker who went to a firearms instructor course. He told me that there was a fellow in his class (student) who happened to work for Federal Premium Ammunition who proceeded to tell him that, for a bullet, life begins at 2200 fps (rifles).

He told my coworker that any handgun (or other firearm) that shoots below the 2200 fps are all basically the same as far as effectiveness. The wound channel isn't as large in the lesser velocities. You have to score a CNS shot or strike a major organ to stop the threat. A basic torso shot won't get it done unless you place a ton of other rounds in and around the first shot with it. Wound channels are, for the most part, the size of the projectile that made it. He went on to say that the secondary wound channel that is created north of 2200 fps balloons up considerably and even organs that are in the neighborhood of the initial wound but aren't directly struck by the round can be torn and destroyed by the shockwave of the bullet's path.

After my coworker told me this, he then told me that this fellow told him that any handgun cartridge (38 spl and bigger, he isn't a fan of the 380) will perform essentially the same with regard to the end result and that caliber and pressure rating is irrelevant. I'm not sure that I'm 100% on board with everything that I was told during this conversation, but I am inclined to believe that this guy probably knows what he's talking about. It gave me a lot to think about.

I am a big fan of the 40sw and I carry one now and then. My duty weapon is chambered in 40. I am a huge fan of the 38/357 and off-duty carry guns chambered in these two cartridges more than anything else. My back-up in my vest at work is a M37 (38spl). I guess this discussion, for me, returns to the subject of shot placement. Regardless of what you carry, shot placement is going to be what gets it done much more so that what your gun is chambered in. Carry whatcha want and practice with it.

 

[rock_castle]

Judging by how scarce 9mm ammo is, it doesn't appear that many folks in these parts are "shedding 9's".

 

[Protected One]

Judging by how scarce 9mm ammo is, it doesn't appear that many folks in these parts are "shedding 9's".

Well, if they sell them to someone who lives in the same area...all the "demand" for ammo does is move from one house to another, and the scarcity remains unchanged.

 

[Smitty357]

Because they heard the FEDS are now going from .40 back to 9mm.

So in theory they believe that later down the road. 9mm will be more scarce than it is now and the .40 will be more readily available.

I call BS if u ask me. But whatever works for them.

 

[M3Stuart]

To the OP's point: I have noticed more .40's at the range I frequent. It has to do with ammo availability from what I'm told anecdotally. Not sure if that's a trend or if any of those folks sold their 9's - I've never asked.

I notice this every time I go because it has become a lot easier for me to collect my 9mm brass! Though I do have to pick out the .40 brass...

 

[fdw]

Good and interesting post 66snub.

Especially, carry what you want and practice with it.

More from the editor in the letters column of American Hand Gunner Jan/Feb issue p.16 as a response to a reader:

The sum difference between a 9mm and 45 ACP is about .1"

"Bullet weight only really allows for a bit more penetration, but in real world, most of the good 9s, 40s and, 45s all penetrate about the same." and further down "I've seen lots of dead bodies (20+ years as street cop in San Diego). You can't tell the difference between a .38, 9mm, .40, .45 or even a 44 mag. I saw a bad guy take a full load of 00 buck from about 20 feet from a cop's shotgun, and the BG ran about 100 yards before he bled out and stopped." "The real message is get a good gun you can shoot well (and deliver follow-up shots fast) with good ammo and practice." RH

I was recently speaking to a coworker who went to a firearms instructor course. He told me that there was a fellow in his class (student) who happened to work for Federal Premium Ammunition who proceeded to tell him that, for a bullet, life begins at 2200 fps (rifles).

He told my coworker that any handgun (or other firearm) that shoots below the 2200 fps are all basically the same as far as effectiveness. The wound channel isn't as large in the lesser velocities. You have to score a CNS shot or strike a major organ to stop the threat. A basic torso shot won't get it done unless you place a ton of other rounds in and around the first shot with it. Wound channels are, for the most part, the size of the projectile that made it. He went on to say that the secondary wound channel that is created north of 2200 fps balloons up considerably and even organs that are in the neighborhood of the initial wound but aren't directly struck by the round can be torn and destroyed by the shockwave of the bullet's path.

After my coworker told me this, he then told me that this fellow told him that any handgun cartridge (38 spl and bigger, he isn't a fan of the 380) will perform essentially the same with regard to the end result and that caliber and pressure rating is irrelevant. I'm not sure that I'm 100% on board with everything that I was told during this conversation, but I am inclined to believe that this guy probably knows what he's talking about. It gave me a lot to think about.

I am a big fan of the 40sw and I carry one now and then. My duty weapon is chambered in 40. I am a huge fan of the 38/357 and off-duty carry guns chambered in these two cartridges more than anything else. My back-up in my vest at work is a M37 (38spl). I guess this discussion, for me, returns to the subject of shot placement. Regardless of what you carry, shot placement is going to be what gets it done much more so that what your gun is chambered in. Carry whatcha want and practice with it.

 

[Texas40]

Personal preference for me.
I chose to stick with a single caliber in all my semi auto handguns and the one I prefer is the 40.
I have shot 9 and 40 side by side in two similar sized guns one a Ruger(9) and the other S&W and the felt recoil difference is almost non existent.
And the fact that I can find 40 ammo at almost every store I walk into and online and the price piont difference between the two is not an issue because it generally is less than a dollar a box.

 

[walkin' trails]

I personally made the switch back to 9 earlier this year because the bigger calibers stirred up arthritis faster in my shooting hand, but also accepted what a buddy and 9mmm advocate had been telling me for years was that I'd be faster and just as, if notmore accurate with the 9. I sold my 40s, both Glocks. They were snapped up pretty quick, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the 40 is gaining in popularity. The fact that there's more 40 on the shelves indicates that the peppers, hoarders, and folks like me who like to shoot and don't want to get caught short are still buying military calibers. 5.56 and 7.62 are just as scarce in certain areas at the moment. The demand is not helped by police departments or the Fan Belt Inspectors going back to the 9.

In regard to the posting about auto glass penetration, the 9 is just as capable of punching holes as any other acceptable caliber, and just as prime to becomming plugged it distorted as any bullet design. The newer designs of bonded bullets all perform much better through barriers than the designs that led to the 9mm getting a bad rap 20-some years ago.

 

[colts4u]

People choose their favorite number then come up with reasons to support it. "It's bigger or more powerful than 9mm, but it's still the same gun as 9mm" is why I chose the 40... But then I shot the same gun chambered in 9mm.

So I've got the ruger Sr40 and Sr9. At 25 yards with the 40, all my bullet holes were in the torso of the man size target. At 10 yards, all my bullets were in the face. Now, I wasn't going slow and squeezing each round off with careful aim. I also wouldn't call it rapid fire. I just shot 15 rounds and pulled the target in, reloaded, put the target back out, and shot 15 more. The gun worked fine, no problems, I can use this gun in self defense, all is good. I carried it and continued shooting it.

But what gun collection is complete without a 9mm? I found a used Sr9 for $350, and I couldn't find anything wrong with it, so I bought it.

At 25 yards, all my shots were in the face. The recoil was radically less than the 40. It was much more accurate. It operated more smoothly. It was fun. With my next magazine, I drew a heart on my target's chest at 25 yards.

-both "first time shootings" were performed with federal white box fmj's.

The 40 is all fine and good, but I prefer 9mm

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

First of all let me make it perfectly clear, I don't care what you chose to carry. We all have choices, its the American way.
But for me I shoot and carry 45 ACP in a full size 1911. If I'm going to protect myself and what's mine (family included) I am going to shoot a large round. Is the 1911 heavier to carry? I guess it is for some, but with the proper holster and belt, you never know its there. I carry every day, all day, 90% of the time its a full size 1911, if clothing doesn't permit the 5", I will drop back to a commander. If that won't conceal properly I either stay home, or go anyway because open carry is legal in Ohio. Ballistically, in my personal tests, the 9 mm can'tcome close to the 45.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

penetrates windshield glass readily

How can you be justified shooting through a windshield? If your assailant is behind the glass it is not very likely that he could be shooting at you.

Oh, I see. The assailant is attacking you with his car. The first deputy I worked with, a crusty old timer not impressed by the then-new mid-70s fads, asked me a telling question one night. "If you actually shoot the guy behind the wheel, where is that car going to end up? If you shot him, you own where that car, now a 4,000 pound bullet, will go.....and who that car will strike."

 

[sac-gunslinger]

We all have choices, its the American way.

It is fashion that dictates many of our choices. And anecdotes from varous combat and street veterans. Arguably, virtually all handgun rounds have about the same stats for performance on soft targets.

I have been in the business long enough to see fashion take shooters from the 38/357 to 9mm then on to 40 with 45 popping in and out of popularity continuously.

If it sounds good to you then use it. If you have confidence in it, use it. You will do OK whatever "it" happens to be.