gunny4053
US Veteran
Where can I get one of them milspec toilet seats?
For $3500 I'm sure one can be found.
Why do so many people talk down on Smith & Wesson M&P AR's for ?
- Thread starter mike575416
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For $3500 I'm sure one can be found.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Unless you're referring to the mil spec purists at M4C, most folks speak well of the M&P 15. That said, I'm curious as to why S&W necessarily makes a much better AR than the ones you mentioned. What is the criteria for saying that S&W clearly makes a better rifle than Windham?
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JustAnotherGunGuy
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I don't know who makes the best but I buy the best I can afford. I started with the M&P15(wife "bought" it for my birthday). I used that rifle for several year and had no problems with it, none.
With that experience in hand I purchased the 15-22 a couple of years later, again VERY happy.
When S&W brought out the M&P10 well, you guessed it, had to get one. Hell, I might end up getting the 300BLK that they offer. Untill I see a reason to spend more money for ARs I will keep buying the M&P offerings. It could have easily cost as much for one "high end" name brand rifle as I have in all three of my M&Ps.
$995 M&P10 MOE
$1100 M&P15 MOE
$500 15-22 MOE
With that experience in hand I purchased the 15-22 a couple of years later, again VERY happy.
When S&W brought out the M&P10 well, you guessed it, had to get one. Hell, I might end up getting the 300BLK that they offer. Untill I see a reason to spend more money for ARs I will keep buying the M&P offerings. It could have easily cost as much for one "high end" name brand rifle as I have in all three of my M&Ps.
$995 M&P10 MOE
$1100 M&P15 MOE
$500 15-22 MOE
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shane_huskey
US Veteran
You basically have 3 levels. Below mil-spec, mil-spec and above mil-spec. Is your rifle junk because it is below mil-spec, possibly but not necessarily. I own a M&P15 MOE that is not built to military specifications, but it is a pretty good rifle. It is accurate enough, has a good trigger (albeit MIM), and is built as a mil-spec copy so everything can be interchanged with mil-spec parts if I choose. That being said, I also own a mid-length BCM that is a much better rifle. The trigger that came in my BCM was junk, so I had to change it out with an ALG, but that was cheap enough and the rifle is built a lot better than my M&P. If you buy above mil-spec (such as Noveske, POF etc) your rifle will be a better rifle than my BCM, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I need your rifle. It really comes down to what you are going to use the rifle for. If you are buying a rifle to put in a safe so you can show your friends that you have an "M4", buy the cheapest thing that looks good because you probably won't hardly ever shoot it. If you are a competitor, buy whatever the pros are running for whatever game you play. If you want a fighting rifle that you would stake your life on if you needed to, I advise you buy mil-spec. All that being said, I bought my M&P15 MOE for $865 new with my military discount and got a $100 mail-in rebate on top of that whereas the Colt LE6920 was $1098. If the price difference between the M&P and a Colt were closer, I would have went with the Colt (which is the whole reason I bought my BCM when I did, becuase it ended up only being $40 more than the Colt when I was ready to step up to a different rifle). When new people ask me what I recommend, I tell them to buy a Colt, buy a bunch of ammo, shoot the life out of it and what you learn while shooting will let you know what you need to do from there.
TangoFoxtrot
US Veteran
The answer to your question is ignorance, lack of research ability, and more money than brains.
The Nutnfancy review sold me on the Sport. His review turned out to be absolutely accurate. I concur with his results. The Sport is a great carbine.
handejector
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If he's that smart, why does he incorrectly refer to "lock time" when he means "dwell time"? Lock time is the time between the trigger releasing the sear and the firing pin igniting the primer. Dwell time is the term generally used to refer to the length of time the breeching system stays full locked.
In addition, some of the military specifications are only applicable if you're dealing with a select fire (full auto) weapons system. They may be unnecessary, illegal or possibly both on a semi-auto only firearm. They can also be excessively expensive from a cost/benfit standpoint.
The difference between a trash AR and a good AR is quality control. QC costs. Besides the line inspections, there has to be a process that checks the incoming parts to verify that they meet specifications. All the specifications, all the time. Price point does matter though. The manufacturer has to be willing to produce a quality product.
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If you spent $1600 or more on a rifle from a small company, that average people have never heard of, you don't want the value declining because a major, well know, American company is making rifles just as good for half the price (w/ lifetime warranty).
S&W is here today. They will be here tomorrow and they will be here when I'm gone and my son needs the rifle worked on.
That just makes you try to justify your exuberant purchase.
S&W is here today. They will be here tomorrow and they will be here when I'm gone and my son needs the rifle worked on.
That just makes you try to justify your exuberant purchase.
OP
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Let Me Clarify Myself . Like I Said It's My 1st Post
This is for the guy who cant seem to find the bad reviews . I never said they were professional reviews done by major Gun Magazine's . If you look you will find a lot of personal reviews & opinions about S&W AR's that are negative . I cant find a single bad review done by a professional writer . I like to read peoples opinions but it gets hard to filter through all of the **** . I would put my Vtac 2 up against any other AR out there & know for sure that its gonna be dependable & accurate & smooth . I just wish more people would give them a try & learn what true cost effective quality looks & feels like . Ive had the worst luck with buying defective guns so I understand first hand how poor the QC is from most gun manufacture's is . I read 1 guy who said S&W AR's were very poorly made & had horrible QC with terrible accuracy & reliability . These opinions cant be based off of facts . Im trying to stop reading so much so I wont get so Pissed Off when I read comments that seem to have zero facts backing them up . Also I had 2 Ruger 556 R rifles , 1 SB & 1 E model . Those are 2 of the worst rifles Ive ever owned or shot . The guy that recommended the Ruger 556 needs to try Adams Arms or LWRC or PWS . The Ruger is front heavy & 1/9 twist & bulky rails & they get extremely hot for a Piston gun . When I don't like something I list the facts on why . This is what I want to see from everyone with something negative to say .
This is for the guy who cant seem to find the bad reviews . I never said they were professional reviews done by major Gun Magazine's . If you look you will find a lot of personal reviews & opinions about S&W AR's that are negative . I cant find a single bad review done by a professional writer . I like to read peoples opinions but it gets hard to filter through all of the **** . I would put my Vtac 2 up against any other AR out there & know for sure that its gonna be dependable & accurate & smooth . I just wish more people would give them a try & learn what true cost effective quality looks & feels like . Ive had the worst luck with buying defective guns so I understand first hand how poor the QC is from most gun manufacture's is . I read 1 guy who said S&W AR's were very poorly made & had horrible QC with terrible accuracy & reliability . These opinions cant be based off of facts . Im trying to stop reading so much so I wont get so Pissed Off when I read comments that seem to have zero facts backing them up . Also I had 2 Ruger 556 R rifles , 1 SB & 1 E model . Those are 2 of the worst rifles Ive ever owned or shot . The guy that recommended the Ruger 556 needs to try Adams Arms or LWRC or PWS . The Ruger is front heavy & 1/9 twist & bulky rails & they get extremely hot for a Piston gun . When I don't like something I list the facts on why . This is what I want to see from everyone with something negative to say .
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I do not see an overly large number of bad reviews of the S&W M&P15. To me, the S&W is a very solid rifle.
Colt, of course, until recently was the sole maker of the real deal M4 sold to the military (Remington got a contract for M4s recently, so whoever thinks Bushmaster* is a slouch needs to "get a grip"), which means that Colt's rifles go through tests required under those stringent military contracts.
Since the rifles sold by Colt to the commercial market are made to the same specs as the government M4s, the commercial Colts are clearly very good indeed. And the Colt will hold its value against all of these "Johnny come lately" companies such as some of the ones the OP mentioned.
That said, S&W makes a very fine M4 type rifle.
*Bushmaster is owned by Remington and makes the Remington R4.
Colt, of course, until recently was the sole maker of the real deal M4 sold to the military (Remington got a contract for M4s recently, so whoever thinks Bushmaster* is a slouch needs to "get a grip"), which means that Colt's rifles go through tests required under those stringent military contracts.
Since the rifles sold by Colt to the commercial market are made to the same specs as the government M4s, the commercial Colts are clearly very good indeed. And the Colt will hold its value against all of these "Johnny come lately" companies such as some of the ones the OP mentioned.
That said, S&W makes a very fine M4 type rifle.
*Bushmaster is owned by Remington and makes the Remington R4.
ThePhantom
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A lot of people talk this gun down because of the fact that the sport model doesn't have a forward assist or a dust cover. If you are shooting out in Nevada, Arizona or any other area with desert. Dust covers are nice. But for the most part you don't need one. Forward assists are good for hunting. These two features on the upper are nice to have, but not a deal breaker. All in all I think the gun is great. But I cant say I haven't put aftermarket parts on it. My M&P 15 sport has been a project gun. I might soon even be swapping the STRIPPED upper out for one with a forward assist and dust cover. In the end it just comes down to the fact that the AR 15 platform is incredibly versatile. It's all a matter of preference and if you truly want the "perfect gun" get one built for you or build your own. I have customized mine to fit me but I still love the gun. You can critique any gun worth the time.
cyphertext
US Veteran
The ejection port cover does very little against the fine gypsum sand in southern New Mexico. That stuff gets into everything. I can take it or leave it. For a military rifle, sure, give it to me... maybe it will at least slow down the rate that my action is covered with sand.
Many people say this, and I don't see it as a valid argument for a forward assist. If you ride the charging handle forward and need to insure the bolt is fully seated, nudge it forward with your thumb.
Many will comeback with something along the lines of "try that when the bolt is hot", which obviously, if your bolt is that hot, you don't need to charge the weapon silently, and if a round doesn't chamber, then you need to eject it.
Even when following the military's SPORTS, before you Tap the forward assist, you have already Pulled the charging handle to the rear, Observed that the chamber is clear, and have Released the charging handle. If the bolt doesn't go into battery at that point, you have an issue that will not be cleared with immediate action.
The main gripe against the S&W I have heard, like others, is that the M&P line is not built to TDP. Why anyone would expect a civilian firearm to be built by Colt's proprietary specifications for a military weapon is beyond me, but they do. No one yet has been able to explain to me how I would benefit from a 4150 barrel vs. a 4140 barrel that I currently have. Same with the BCG... What I have works and is reliable.
CatSnipah
Member
If you want to see "real" AR snobs and bashing, I'd encourage you to visit the ar forum specifically dedicated to these weapons.
If you suggest something is "good" other than what the long-time members there TELL you is good, you'll be ridiculed, receive no help, and be run-off the board.
To me, if you like something, and it serves your purposes (price, features, weight, etc)., and it works for you, then it's a good rifle. Do your homework, understand the pros and cons, treat the weapon with respect and care, and you'll be happy with whatever you have, be it a Daniel Defense, M&P or Bushmaster.
If you suggest something is "good" other than what the long-time members there TELL you is good, you'll be ridiculed, receive no help, and be run-off the board.
To me, if you like something, and it serves your purposes (price, features, weight, etc)., and it works for you, then it's a good rifle. Do your homework, understand the pros and cons, treat the weapon with respect and care, and you'll be happy with whatever you have, be it a Daniel Defense, M&P or Bushmaster.
Here is my take on it. I can buy a WWII vintage Remington Rand 1911A1 that is milspec offered for sale for over $1,800. The Remington Rand will shake, rattle and roll. I can buy a Springfield Armory current production Range Officer for $850. The Range Officer is not milspec. The Range Officer is far more accurate, has a better trigger and has adjustable sights, etc. Now, just as a shooter, which is the better pistol?
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