Why do Some 9mm Shields have FTE? And what is the real cause?

[DeeBee]

That's a pretty ridiculous and reckless statement to make based on what I have seen, experienced and read here.

Well then, why can't S&W fix the 9mm Shields that don't function properly? And why don't the .40s exhibit this problem? How is that a reckless statement? Don't tell me it's just one lemon either, as many others have experienced it also. Why is it when you tell your truthful experiences on this site the S&W lovers don't want to believe that there really are problems? It's reality and its not just ONE lemon! Go ahead keep your 9 mm Shield for self defense, hope you don't have a phase 3 malfunction...

 

[Ofc.JL]

OK. Report time. I examined 2 9mm Shields last nite that I helped a friend locate and buy. My mistake on build date. I thought they were 2013's. The build date on both was 2156. Translates into 04JUN2012.
Examination with calipers on the breech face of both pistols, at the barrel hood cut showed .402, top and bottom of cut. SAAMI standards for 9mm show a nominal case head size of .394. Both were on this measurement. So these 2 Shields slides were indeed 9mm only, as a .40 will not and didn't fit the breech face cut. It was too big.
I did discover an interesting thing about a 9mm Shield slide, however. And I think this is what people are seeing. Due to the extractor cut away on the slide, a person can fit a .40 cal rd up under the extractor on a 9 slide and it will hold. But it's an incorrect hold, as the round is not centered due to the smaller breech cut for 9mm pushing the round too far into the extractor cutaway. The extractor and spring compress enough to hold the round and it LOOKS like it's a .40 slide. If you think you have a 9mm shield made for a .40 round, all you have to do is see if you can slide the .40 round down thru the breech barrel hood cut. if it fits(and the fit must be a barely loose, "running" fit!), then you indeed have a .40 slide. Same test for a 9mm. A .40 round WILL NOT fit the breech barrel hood cut on a 9MM, at all.
I could see a mix up in production of Shields. 9mm's made with .40 slides, by accident. If that the case, your 9 will never work correctly, and a slide and barrel are in order. S&W will fix, trust me.

Now, If you determine that you indeed have a dedicated 9, and you are having FTE probs, I would go in this order as to finding out why;
1. Barrel & chamber within specifications, and barrel fit to cam block and slide. Check for function and fit.
2. Extractor within specifications. Check for damaged or improperly cut extractor.
3. Extractor properly fitted per factory standards, as far as correct fit to cartridge rim and breech face. BTW, I have heard of extractors that slide forward and back. Wrong. It means that something is wrong w/ the extractor pivot hole.
4. extractor spring within factory specifications as to tension.
If all the above is good, then look at recoil spring for proper poundage, and to see if sacked.
If all of that is good, magazine and ammo.
If that doesn't work, contact S&W for return.
My educated guess on these shield that are dropping the cases(FTE), is that the extractor is not fitted correctly, or the extractor spring is bad. But that's a WAG, on my part. I would have to see the gun in person to start trying to diagnose the problem.
Something minor and stupid is causing these shields to FTE. We just have to find the problem and fix the problem.
Ofc.JL

 

[klbdiver]

I just cant believe, that with all the Shields sold, and all the 9mm Shields that exibit this problem that no one has an answer for me? Well the only answer so far is that I am limpristing? Come on...

I'd like to chirp in here as I recently purchased a 9mm M&P Shield. I didn't push 30 rounds through it and mind you a brand new gun, before it had a FTE. Thought it was a fluke. My buddy and I bought the same gun at the same time and same dealer, same stack. He has so far no issues. I went back to the range and after nearly 100 rounds, same thing. I asked the armorer and he thought I might be the way I was holding the pistol. They also suggested I try different ammo. I had been using Winchester. I purchased Magtech and went back to the range the next day. I didn't get the second round through and it FTE again. I got the same armorer to come look. Had him shoot it. This guy is experienced and his first round and several consecutive rounds had FTE's. A closer look and process of elimination, it seemed that the 7 round magazine was the one giving the FTE's and not the 8 round. We changed my 7 round mag with their rental 7 round mag and pushed through another 50 rounds. NO more FTE's. I pushed 30 or so through the 8 round mag and still no FTE's. We feel possibly it's the 7 round mag. I have yet to return to the range and shoot another 100 rounds through and see if that truly is the problem. I will keep everyone posted my findings. Do keep note of which mag is giving you the problem. What good is it to carry if it FTE's! If this doesn't solve it, I will dump it and go the new G30s Glock.

 

[klbdiver]

That looks exactly like what happens to mine! I'm afraid to use as my carry. See my post.
I initially used Winchester, then switched to Magtech. Still same issues with FTE's. Changed my 7 round mag for another and problem stopped. Hope that's the issue, but need to go to the range to see. Will try to get there tomorrow.

 

[will9c1]

Hello all, new to the forum and just looking for some info and stumble onto this thread. I just received my Shield 9mm today and took it out the range and put 120 rounds through it. Unfortunately instead of getting used to the sight picture, I have gotten rather quite a few malfunction clearing drill at the range. I have used Tula Brassmaxx, American Eagle, and Winchester Ranger SXT with the same result and the poster's image above. I guess I have to call S&W customer service tomorrow regarding the issue. I have checked my grip and do not think I am limpwristing the gun as I do not have issues with the same ammo and grip with my LC9 (the Shield suppose to to replace my LC9 as a backup for a more Glock-like striker fired trigger, but obviously not for now). Will keep you all posted.

 

[coilette]

Mine is back from S&W. New slide (which the rep said also probably meant a new extractor assembly) and adjustments to trigger pull. I'm not sure if the recoil spring is new - I suspect not - and also unsure about the barrel. The chamber definitely looks a little different, but I can't tell if it's an entirely new barrel or if they just polished the chamber on the old one.

Shot 100 rounds with 1 failure. That occurred with the 7-round mag, by the way. Tonight I plan to put another 100 through it using only the 8 rounder. We will see...

 

[klbdiver]

Ok, my update to my M&P Shield 9mm. This morning went back to the range using the new 7 round mag and run150 rounds through them. No issues with FTE's on the new mag. As for the 8 round, I had two FTE's with that which I didn't have the other day. Again talking with the armorer at the range, he still feels that there is an issue with the spring tension on the mag and had too much pushing the round up before the ejector has time to do it's job causing the FTE. He said the S&W rep will be in the store this upcoming week and will address it with him and will report back to me his findings.

 

[catalyst686]

I highly doubt all the FTE malfunctions are being caused by mags. I have four mags, two 7 rounders and two 8 rounders and had FTE with all of the mags, evenly distributed throughout them.

 

[bobermo]

It almost looks like the spent casing is getting hung up on the next round bullet not allowing the casing to be fully extracted. Not sure if this is a cause or effect of the problem. Maybe once the spent casing hits resistance, the extractor is slipping past the rim. Maybe this is mag related as suggested and also why it seems to be ammo specific to rim and bullet profile? The feed lips should prevent the bullet from entering the chamber until it's chambered by the slide.

 

[Ofc.JL]

Hey Guys, good info. You may be on to the prob. Of course it is very hard to diagnose a function problem w/o actually having the pistol. On here, we can discuss ideas and knowledge to help find and eliminate problems.
Here is an idea to kick around: We all know that MecGar makes magazines for S&W. For all the pistol line, if I am not mistaken(And I could well be. Who knows?). We also know that like all other Firearms Manufacturerers at this time, Demand for their products and magazines is at an all time high due to the Socialists in Washington. We also are aware that MecGar makes mags for several other Manufactures along with S&W. We can see that MecGar is SLAMMED busy trying to make product to fill demand, so much so that they are quite tacky about being bothered by the public at this time(Wahh!). We have seen recently that new magazines for S&W products are unavailable, and if we do get any, it seems that the mags for M&P 45's, and M&P 9's seem to be having problems, i.e. sacked or wrong springs, modified followers that no longer engage the Slide Stop tab. Inline design changes (for whatever reason!) that seem to cause completely new problems that have yet to be addressed. We are aware that magazines for Shields have been pretty hard, if not impossible to obtain lately, although that seems to be somewhat better now.
Question: Are the new mags for the Shield 9mm out of specification as supplied to S&W from MecGar? And because they are possibly out of spec, causing problems to the function of new 9mm Shields. I can see that happening rather easily. The only way to tell is compare earlier Shield mags with new Shield mags and measure everything. It is quite possible, that the magazines in recent build Shields are all out of spec, and no one caught it. I mean, after all, Mecgar does just about makes the best mags on the planet. Could vastly sped up manufacturing cause a supplied product to be messed up from the "Get-Go". You bet it can. Worth a look, huh?
Take your FTE Shield out again, and shoot it w/o the magazine in it. Several times and see if you get FTE's. Than try the same process with the mag empty, but mag in the gun. See what happens. Then try 1 round in mag, and then 2 rounds, and so on, and see what happens.
If everything else with the shield is nominal, the new magazines may be the culprit, across the board.

 

[coilette]

For what it's worth, I've never experienced an FTE with either the first round or the last round in a magazine. Don't know if that's helpful but thought I'd throw it out there. I know another poster did have a first-round failure.

 

[AGoyette]

Runs like a singer sewing machine.

That is kind of scary. Singers are not made all that well anymore. I used to sell sewing machines and we used to get in Singers all the time for repair. A lot of the new ones are junk, IMO. lol

 

[DeeBee]

Hey Guys, good info. You may be on to the prob. Of course it is very hard to diagnose a function problem w/o actually having the pistol. On here, we can discuss ideas and knowledge to help find and eliminate problems.
Here is an idea to kick around: We all know that MecGar makes magazines for S&W. For all the pistol line, if I am not mistaken(And I could well be. Who knows?). We also know that like all other Firearms Manufacturerers at this time, Demand for their products and magazines is at an all time high due to the Socialists in Washington. We also are aware that MecGar makes mags for several other Manufactures along with S&W. We can see that MecGar is SLAMMED busy trying to make product to fill demand, so much so that they are quite tacky about being bothered by the public at this time(Wahh!). We have seen recently that new magazines for S&W products are unavailable, and if we do get any, it seems that the mags for M&P 45's, and M&P 9's seem to be having problems, i.e. sacked or wrong springs, modified followers that no longer engage the Slide Stop tab. Inline design changes (for whatever reason!) that seem to cause completely new problems that have yet to be addressed. We are aware that magazines for Shields have been pretty hard, if not impossible to obtain lately, although that seems to be somewhat better now.
Question: Are the new mags for the Shield 9mm out of specification as supplied to S&W from MecGar? And because they are possibly out of spec, causing problems to the function of new 9mm Shields. I can see that happening rather easily. The only way to tell is compare earlier Shield mags with new Shield mags and measure everything. It is quite possible, that the magazines in recent build Shields are all out of spec, and no one caught it. I mean, after all, Mecgar does just about makes the best mags on the planet. Could vastly sped up manufacturing cause a supplied product to be messed up from the "Get-Go". You bet it can. Worth a look, huh?
Take your FTE Shield out again, and shoot it w/o the magazine in it. Several times and see if you get FTE's. Than try the same process with the mag empty, but mag in the gun. See what happens. Then try 1 round in mag, and then 2 rounds, and so on, and see what happens.
If everything else with the shield is nominal, the new magazines may be the culprit, across the board.

When it only happens once every 100 or so rounds and can be random enough to happen twice in a row, it would be hard to determine if it is a magazine problem.

 

[coilette]

Went to the range last night. Round #2 of the evening -- light strike (photo below). That's new.

I also had another failure, though I think this one would be blamed on me and not the extractor. It's so strange, the cases eject like nobody's business and then one just randomly doesn't make it out of the breech area. I know that, when cycling the action in slow motion (by hand), the spent casing sometimes tips on its way back and doesn't hit the ejector bar. That would sort of match what's happening in real time -- my grip doesn't change, the ammo doesn't change, the magazine doesn't change, yet a casing remains in the breech when all others have been zooming out without any trouble.

I'm starting to think the Shield and I don't make a good team.

 

[DeeBee]

My second 9 shield I bought was working fine for. 300 rounds then I had the fte! I am selling both my 9s. They are just not meant to be.

 

[klbdiver]

How can one tell when it was manufactured?

 

[klbdiver]

Thanks. Now I'm really puzzled. Just doesn't seem right to have so many people with the same issues. Something is definitely wrong here. This is not something that S&W should ignore. People will lose confidence and reliability of this piece and ultimately S&W will lose sales over it.

 

[PHATSPEED7x]

Sounds like a few people on this board got their hands on some bad shields. Sorry to hear that guys. I just bought mine last night. My dealer got a dozen of them in. All recently made. Mine was test fired 10-21-2013. I was able to get out today, and put 250 rounds though it. I didn't have any issues with mine. The trigger is by far the best factory M&P trigger I've shot. And my groups were not too bad. It also ate every kind of ammo I could throw at it. Including a full box of Tula Steel cased. I checked my extractor, and it looks fine. No abnormal wear.

 

[DeeBee]

Sounds like a few people on this board got their hands on some bad shields. Sorry to hear that guys. I just bought mine last night. My dealer got a dozen of them in. All recently made. Mine was test fired 10-21-2013. I was able to get out today, and put 250 rounds though it. I didn't have any issues with mine. The trigger is by far the best factory M&P trigger I've shot. And my groups were not too bad. It also ate every kind of ammo I could throw at it. Including a full box of Tula Steel cased. I checked my extractor, and it looks fine. No abnormal wear.

Go shoot another 300 and report back. Try some Winchester.

 

[DeeBee]

It appears Now that the extractor needs to be redesigned IMO. So that it will work with every type of factory ammo.