S&WIowegan
US Veteran
Trolling today??
Why replace the springs in a revolver?
- Thread starter nagantino
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Trolling today??
BigBill
Absent Comrade
I measure and shim the trigger and hammer. Then I lube the hammer and trigger stud with moly. I apply some on the shims and sear too. Assemble it and I use snap caps and cycle it. I also cycle it by not letting the hammer
fall. The action may feel tight at first but it will free up as the moly works into the metal moving parts.
Some can feel the difference some don't a trigger pull Gage will tell the before and after on the moly application. The action even if it's smooth will be even smoother.
fall. The action may feel tight at first but it will free up as the moly works into the metal moving parts.
Some can feel the difference some don't a trigger pull Gage will tell the before and after on the moly application. The action even if it's smooth will be even smoother.
Bearbait in NM
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I guess I was in the same boat as Snowman. My first new S&W in a very long time (625 PC) came with a DA pull weight that was past my trigger pull scale. Something more than 12. It was smooth and the SA was fine, but no way in the heck I was gonna dry fire or live fire a 12+ pull to something reasonable.
Maybe on a model that is certainly purchased for carry/defense, and likely to be used close and quick, with stress involved? But a PC gun?
And to further "complicate" things, my 12+ pull was only after I tightened the main spring down to flush. I did try shooting with the screw backed out, as shipped, and it did indeed loosen with firing. That could not be correct? Nothing in the manual about using and checking this screw as trigger adjustment. Find this forum and figure out that the screw should be tight. Back to 12+.
I have it all sorted out now, but it is not hard to understand why new S&W customers can be a little confused.
Craig
Maybe on a model that is certainly purchased for carry/defense, and likely to be used close and quick, with stress involved? But a PC gun?
And to further "complicate" things, my 12+ pull was only after I tightened the main spring down to flush. I did try shooting with the screw backed out, as shipped, and it did indeed loosen with firing. That could not be correct? Nothing in the manual about using and checking this screw as trigger adjustment. Find this forum and figure out that the screw should be tight. Back to 12+.
I have it all sorted out now, but it is not hard to understand why new S&W customers can be a little confused.
Craig
Looking forward to the challenge now and the next time I put a clip of 38mm into my Smith and Weston there's going to be some fun. I'll release the safety catch of course.[/QUOTE]
I googled "38mm" and the only thing that came up was a Apple watch. Next I googled "Smith and Weston" and came up with some twitter account.
I googled "38mm" and the only thing that came up was a Apple watch. Next I googled "Smith and Weston" and came up with some twitter account.
On thinking further, I don't know why I thought my new 686 would be smooth and break "like glass". I geuss I just expected that from a new Smith. The gun is for IPSC and other revolver competitions so if the Wolff springs combinations are not satisfactory, I can fall back to the factory originals and work from there. I'm excited by the prospect.
1 - dry fire 500 times
2 - apply ice to your hand overnight
3 - next night go out on the deck like your wife recommends and dry fire 500 times more (or however many you can before your finger gives out)
4 - go shoot your gun 500 times. See if you don't notice a real improvement.
If it's still gritty take it to a decent gunsmith for a trigger job.
2 - apply ice to your hand overnight
3 - next night go out on the deck like your wife recommends and dry fire 500 times more (or however many you can before your finger gives out)
4 - go shoot your gun 500 times. See if you don't notice a real improvement.
If it's still gritty take it to a decent gunsmith for a trigger job.
Badquaker
Member
I usually dress the rebound slide with an 8000 grit water stone. Polish the inside of the rebound slide with 2000 grit paper wrapped around a small stick. Reduced power rebound spring and maybe a reduced power main spring. I use a strong magnifying glass to examine all surfaces, and address any anomalies. I'm very happy with my finished product. I don't recommend everyone try it, but if you are mechanically minded, and take your time, it is not that hard.
silentflyer
Member
I have used a diamond hone to clean up the rough edges on the trigger/hammer for years, not removing a lot of metal, just a bit of polishing. That and a good lube job and keep it clean, and shoot the heck out of them. After a few hundred rounds, they work quite nicely. I NEVER use a file anywhere near the action parts/pieces. Works for me.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
My m28 after the reduced main spring and trigger rebound spring are installed and it was lubed with moly after running the action it feels smooth like my python.
Biggfoot44
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There are TWO factors in the weight per se of a DA trigger : the springs , and cumulative internal friction.
The common problems arise when a new guns pull is heavy AND rough. The roughness is a sign of internal friction. When light springs are combined with internal friction , that can result in light strikes. Those same springs installed in a gun with a slick action might well be reliable.
My finger is experienced enough to usually tell "normal breakin required" from " somthing is truely messed up in there" , but alas the internet isn't three D , and I can't try a cpl pulls with your gun.
Presuming the internals are more or less in spec do some shooting and a lot of dry firing first , and they determine if anything else is required.
I have seen factory strain screws of varying lengths, even if all they gun of the same frame have the same p/n for the screw. Wether this is deliberate , or a QC thing - can't say. I have replaced a noticably long screw with an average one. Conversely I had a PC gun that came with a screw so short it gave light hits , and I replaced with a stock screw . ( Due to logistical factors of making round trips to warrenty center , I just bought the screw out of pocket ).
The common problems arise when a new guns pull is heavy AND rough. The roughness is a sign of internal friction. When light springs are combined with internal friction , that can result in light strikes. Those same springs installed in a gun with a slick action might well be reliable.
My finger is experienced enough to usually tell "normal breakin required" from " somthing is truely messed up in there" , but alas the internet isn't three D , and I can't try a cpl pulls with your gun.
Presuming the internals are more or less in spec do some shooting and a lot of dry firing first , and they determine if anything else is required.
I have seen factory strain screws of varying lengths, even if all they gun of the same frame have the same p/n for the screw. Wether this is deliberate , or a QC thing - can't say. I have replaced a noticably long screw with an average one. Conversely I had a PC gun that came with a screw so short it gave light hits , and I replaced with a stock screw . ( Due to logistical factors of making round trips to warrenty center , I just bought the screw out of pocket ).
Coastie762
US Veteran
Lots of good information here. My two cents...
Whenever I purchase a new or used revolver I will open the side plate, disassemble, clean and lube the internals. New ones are typically dry and may contain construction debris. If the revolver is used, I'll throw away the typically clipped rebound spring and install a new (usually 14 lb)Wolff. The rebound slide gets a light stoning and lube with moly. Even without any smoothing or spring renewal you may be surprised on how much a little lubricant will improve the feel of the action.
One must be careful when reducing the rebound spring weight. Reduce it too much and you will get a "lazy" trigger return.
If you want to play with the mainspring tension without altering your strain screw, take a ride to the hardware store. Purchase a headless socket set screw, 1/2" long (8 x 32 threads if I recall). Install that in your revolver and adjust to your desired pull weight. A dab of Loctite will keep it in place. If available, purchase a grade 8 set screw, no worries about peening with these.
Whenever I purchase a new or used revolver I will open the side plate, disassemble, clean and lube the internals. New ones are typically dry and may contain construction debris. If the revolver is used, I'll throw away the typically clipped rebound spring and install a new (usually 14 lb)Wolff. The rebound slide gets a light stoning and lube with moly. Even without any smoothing or spring renewal you may be surprised on how much a little lubricant will improve the feel of the action.
One must be careful when reducing the rebound spring weight. Reduce it too much and you will get a "lazy" trigger return.
If you want to play with the mainspring tension without altering your strain screw, take a ride to the hardware store. Purchase a headless socket set screw, 1/2" long (8 x 32 threads if I recall). Install that in your revolver and adjust to your desired pull weight. A dab of Loctite will keep it in place. If available, purchase a grade 8 set screw, no worries about peening with these.
scooter123
Member
Guess I should have checked in more frequently.
First, the suggestions for dry firing are excellent because this will provide two benefits. One is that it will smooth the sear surfaces to some extent. Two, is that it will put some wear marks on the moving parts that can provided guidance on areas that may need additional fitting.
Second, about the rebound slide. The link that drives the rebound slide is basically a Toggle Link. Because of this the rebound spring acts on the trigger in such a way that the effort at the trigger falls off as the trigger is pulled. I know that seems an odd statement but toggle links can provide a LOT of mechanical leverage so once you study the force equation for a toggle link you'll understand why this is the case. In the S&W revolver this mechanical leverage is such that the effect of the rebound spring for a two lbs. change in the weight of the rebound spring is almost unmeasurable at the peak pressure exerted on the trigger by the mainspring.
Third, I should have made it clear that the Strain Screw should ALWAYS be fully tightened down. The S&W Performance Shop ships their models with the Strain Screw loosened to a specific pull weight and when these models are actually used it creates a constant stream of complaints about misfires. Because a loose Strain Screw will ALWAYS work looser with use.
Finally, the J frame models use a Coil Mainspring and can only be tuned to smooth out the action. Because of the more compact design of the lock work the "lever arm" for the trigger is shorter and as a result they require a heavy trigger. Another user experimented with the J frame and my vague memory is that a trigger weight below something like 11.5 lbs. cause misfires. If you want to "lighten" the trigger on a J frame the only way to get there is enough practice and dry firing to make your finger stronger. I will also advise using a single motion trigger pull because attempting to stage the trigger for better accuracy will only result in fatigue and a shaking hand due to fatigue. Note, while I don't have a J frame I do have a Dan Wesson 15-2 with a similar coil spring lockwork and reliable function on the Dan Wesson requires a trigger weight over 12.5 lbs.
First, the suggestions for dry firing are excellent because this will provide two benefits. One is that it will smooth the sear surfaces to some extent. Two, is that it will put some wear marks on the moving parts that can provided guidance on areas that may need additional fitting.
Second, about the rebound slide. The link that drives the rebound slide is basically a Toggle Link. Because of this the rebound spring acts on the trigger in such a way that the effort at the trigger falls off as the trigger is pulled. I know that seems an odd statement but toggle links can provide a LOT of mechanical leverage so once you study the force equation for a toggle link you'll understand why this is the case. In the S&W revolver this mechanical leverage is such that the effect of the rebound spring for a two lbs. change in the weight of the rebound spring is almost unmeasurable at the peak pressure exerted on the trigger by the mainspring.
Third, I should have made it clear that the Strain Screw should ALWAYS be fully tightened down. The S&W Performance Shop ships their models with the Strain Screw loosened to a specific pull weight and when these models are actually used it creates a constant stream of complaints about misfires. Because a loose Strain Screw will ALWAYS work looser with use.
Finally, the J frame models use a Coil Mainspring and can only be tuned to smooth out the action. Because of the more compact design of the lock work the "lever arm" for the trigger is shorter and as a result they require a heavy trigger. Another user experimented with the J frame and my vague memory is that a trigger weight below something like 11.5 lbs. cause misfires. If you want to "lighten" the trigger on a J frame the only way to get there is enough practice and dry firing to make your finger stronger. I will also advise using a single motion trigger pull because attempting to stage the trigger for better accuracy will only result in fatigue and a shaking hand due to fatigue. Note, while I don't have a J frame I do have a Dan Wesson 15-2 with a similar coil spring lockwork and reliable function on the Dan Wesson requires a trigger weight over 12.5 lbs.
So if you take the mainspring out of the revolver, the double action trigger pull will be zero? Actually, a lot of things contribute to the weight of the pull. To name a few, the rebound spring is a heavy spring, "toggle link" or not, and there's internal friction between the moving parts. Surface finish of those parts, amount and type of lube or lack of, old congealed lube, poorly fitted parts leading to binding, insufficient cylinder gap allowing the cylinder to drag on the barrel, dirty gun, and on and on. All these and more contribute to the weight of the double action pull.
The advice about shooting the gun to smooth it up is good. The main reason to take a new gun apart is to clean out any crud the factory may have left in there. And lube it. Leave the springs alone and do not shorten the strain screw. Shoot it a some and then see what you think before you begin any alterations.
old&slow
Member
I'm going to take a little diffgerent approach here. Most if not all of my S&W revolvers have Wolff spring in them. Wolff makes two different spring kits. A #201 reduced kit & a #202 standard kit.
If I'm going to be using magnum loads / primers I use the #202.
Federal primer target loads the #201.
The kit comes with 3 rebound springs, I almost always use the 14 lb. return spring.
With the exception of my m617 22 LR I have not had problems with the wolff springs.
I have been smoothing up S&W DA trigger pulls for many years. And have gotten fairly good at it. A flat piece of tool steel with some 600 grit wet/dry and WD-40 goes a long ways on smoothing and de-burring the rebound block. That and a Wolff spring kit will get you a good start on a smooth DA trigger pull. I DO NOT ever file or touch the main spring tension / strain screw ,, other than to make sure it is tight.
Also invest in a video that shows how to work on a S&W would be well worth the money. I haven't seen Miculeks video , but I've heard it was good.
If you are NOT mechanically inclined,, do not even take the side plate off. Find a good gunsmith and pay to have it done. You will have a much better job,, that will cost you a LOT less money.
My grandfather once told me, when I was about 13 or 14 years old,, and he came home and I had a firearm laying on the table in pieces.. " Boy, there are two types of people that take guns apart, Gunsmiths and Fools ,,, You ain't no gunsmith."
Sorry granddad , I'm still not a gunsmith,, but I'm still trying to learn.
( the old S&W trigger pulls WERE smooth as silk ,, Not so much any more,, it's a shame,,
)
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