Why wadcutters for self-defense?

[OldSquid]

It's because you could not use loading data as evidence. Say you whipped up some mild handloads for defense because you're injured, you want your wife to be able to defend herself, whatever the reason. Time comes that you have to shoot a guy who is rapidly approaching you. He was 2 feet away when you shot him, but he says he was 15 and posing no threat. Because of your mild handload, the gunshot residue is very light on him, seemingly confirming his version of the distance, and the prosecutor goes after you. You cannot introduce your loading data showing why the GSR was like that, because you literally manufactured the evidence. With factor rounds, the factory's data CAN be used as evidence. Without getting up to go look through the book, I believe that a like scenario happened the the case of Daniel Bias. His wife died by a gunshot. He said she was holding the gun to her head, he grabbed it, they struggled, it went off and killed her. The GSR was very light, because he made mild handloads for her. The prosecutor's argument was that with the GSR being that light, the shot had to come from farther away, and that he murdered his wife, not her killing herself.

Also, if you use gonzo super hot, or even mildly hot, home brewed self-defense rounds you can find yourself being portrayed as some sort of whacko vigilante or unstable "gun nut" by either the prosecution or the plaintiff's attorney during the ensuing civil trial. In this case, the other side is going to want your loading data, and you'll find yourself having to explain why you thought you needed to load self-defense ammo beyond the specs used in law enforcement or military issued ammo.

Best bet is to use factory ammo that is currently used, or has been used in the past, by local or federal law enforcement. It's easier to defend than either gonzo home brews or any sort of faddish commercial ammo that goes overboard in its description of its own stopping power. Frinstance, we might know that the Hornady Zomby load is a funny marketing stunt, but it could become a nightmare for you in civil court if you ever had to use it because it allows the other side to paint you as a "gun nut."

 

[Gamecock]

If you carry a gun for self defense, the chances of your having to actually shoot someone are on the order of 1 in 10,000. Perhaps 1 in 100,000. Depending on whose statistics you use, guns are used 700,000 to over 2,000,000 times a year for defense WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT.

Carry what you are comfortable with, and quit worrying about esoterica.

 

[Pigirondan]

As an aside to a very old thread, I've become intrigued by Atomic Ammunition's factory load of a .38 Special +P 148 grain reverse hollow body wadcutter.

 

[Otreb]

I have some buffalo bore wadcutters and the +P lswchp load en route. I plan on chronoing them through a few guns.

 

[rwsmith]

swaged or case.....

Wadcutters loaded normally are pretty mean. If you turn the bullet around it resembles the Speer Gold Dot with the large cavity but in that configuration would hard cast or swaged be better. I feel that the skirt on the swaged bullet will most definitely expand but it would be a bit soft and flatten out or tear off. A little harder bullet would probably mushroom nicely.

 

[Iceberg1]

I use the swaged 148 gr HBWC from Hornady in my 4" model 10. I've fired them into water jugs and they blew through 15"s of jugs and bounced off a block of wood. I also fired them into a block of wood and they penetrated 4" and mushroomed to .60 as measured on my digital calipers. There was no tearing of the mushroomed collar. Just my experience with the HBWC, I'm not an expert, but I've been shooting since 1962. Hope this helps some.

 

[Otreb]

Hopefully in the next couple weeks I'll be trying some of the hard cast 150gr Buffalo Bore stuff over the chrono from a few different bbl lengths, probably a 2" Colt Cobra, 2.5" mod 242, 4" mod 64ny1 and a 5 Colt PPS.
I have the +P lswchp's too, though they'll stay in the Smiths only.

 

[Tedbytes]

Wadcutters for defense

I believe those who asked the question "Why wadcutters for self defense" were not thinking about the ubiquotous "Hollow base" target type soft lead 38 Wadcutters!. The purpose of the h.b.swaged wadcutter was due to the fact that bore diameters between Colt,SW,Ruger et al had varying groove diameters from .356-.360". This h.b. Swaged up with burning pressure to fit the lands and grooves properly and were and are,quite accurate. Someone in the early days before common defense type jacket and half-jacket bullets tried to load the hollow based bullet "backwards" with the hollow cavity facing forward and totally incapsulated in the 38 special case so as not to be deformed. When this bullet is fired,even at nominal snub-nose velocities of 700-850 fps,this hollow cavity literally mushrooms to about 45 caliber and more with loads like 5.5 unique or 4.9 bullseye. I have even slit this hollow nasal configuration with a sharp blade and the resultant 4 or 5 petal mushroom is really diastrous. Try it on a watermelon,it really works.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Generally when people say they use wadcutters for self defence they are not referring to the factory, mid-range match ammunition. They are talking about the bullet itself with it's full caliber, sharp shouldered meplat. Either a hard cast or soft cast/swaged bullet will work very well if driven at higher velocities. There is a disadvantage though if you have to reload as they can be difficult to load in a hurry.

I carry 138 grain wadcutters, reload with 158 grain semi wadcutters.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Massad Ayoob does not recommend any reloads for self defense. His reasons refer to your defense if you are charged and go to court for shooting someone. I can't remember what was the jest of his article, but you should research it.

I have, he presented absolutely no credible evidence. OTH advice from a respected firearms attorney in Virginia is that you are either justified, or you are not justified. Only NJ has ammo laws as far as I know.

 

[Gamecock]

Try it on a watermelon,it really works.

Define "works."

I carry 148 gr wadcutters, double-ended hardcast Pennbullets.

.38 Special is a marginal penetrator. A backward hollowbase wadcutter guarantees INADEQUATE PENETRATION. I.e, the HBWC loaded backwards in a .38 Special for self defense is a REALLY.BAD.IDEA.

 

[lebomm]

How 'bout because they don't kick much and they cut clean-edged, open holes that will bleed a lot ?

Larry

 

[Nevada Ed]

c/o post 49;

So you start out with a 158gr Lhp.........

and end up with a 148 BBwc.

That will work.

 

[moosedog]

A sharp shouldered semi wadcutter will cut the same caliber hole as a wadcutter and comes in better loads with more velocity.
Using a 750 fps wadcutter for self defense? More accurate?
If you can't handle in 38 spl with self defense loads, you need to go to a smaller caliber that you can control. Heavy clothing will slow down a wadcutter drastically.

 

[Topsarge]

I'm a retired LEO and FBI trained and certified firearms instructor. Nothing wrong with wadcutters for carry. Like the others said, they cut a clean hole through vitals and bones. I would want them pumped up a little more in the FPS department. Say around 900/1000. That would make them more lethal and be able to penetrate barriers. I think Buffalo Bore may have that covered. A lead semi wadcutter is another great option that has proven itself for a long time. As said before, accuracy rules. So use what you can hit with.

 

[sw282]

1990 before ThanksGiving was moving my ladder stand to another spot..

0ut steps a doe pawing the ground. Just 15yds in front of me on the trail.

0nly gun l had was my Mod 36 Chiefs Special loaded w/wad cutters.

Doe Day too.. So l took a shot. First shot broke her back. Second in the ear.

Tipping the scales @90 lbs, she ate GREAT. A true ThanksGiving feast..

Wad cutters W O R K

 

[03hemi]

I've reevaluated the order of what I carry, I've always carried Federal jhp Hydro shock in my 45s, but know carry one Federal jhp in the pipe, then 2, 230gr hardball for garment penetration and then the rest Federal jhp.