Yeah. "Obfuscations R Us" certainly put its oar in on that one!
Why would I want a hybrid car?
- Thread starter Telecaster
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Yeah, no need to apologize for anything except snarkieness and making the assumption that one size fits all.
We're all real happy for your kids. But that doesn't mean that what works for them works for all (or even MOST) of us...
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Well, how about listening to JD Power?
Attention Required! | Cloudflare
The finding that made me laugh was this one - "Interestingly, satisfaction is higher among EV truck owners who have used their vehicle for towing (779) than among owners who have not towed (753). Satisfaction with driving range is higher among owners who have towed (635) than among those who have not towed (617), and satisfaction with accuracy of stated range also is higher (707 vs. 680, respectively)."
I always value the opinions of those who have 'done' over those who just opine.
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Those EV's just keep going up in flames.
Golf cart crashes and fires rampant across Florida due to unruly people
Golf cart crashes and fires rampant across Florida due to unruly people
THE PILGRIM
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Whereas Lead Acid Batteries don't spontaneously combust either! One of my neighbors had a early model Dodge Caravan that spontaneously combusted just sitting in the driveway! Two years later, this time having one of the Plymouth models of the same type also spontaneously combusted sitting at the curb in front of his house! Batteries combust for whatever reason, whether their Lithium-Ion or far older Lead-Acid batteries…
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OP
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Ford Pinto fuel tank fires killed about 32 people, We all know what became of the Pinto.
Tesla car fires have killed about 80 people, yet Teslas are still shoved down our throats. I've heard the overall build quality is ****.
I guess if you pay off the right people, you get whatever you want, including favorable JD Power reports.
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OP
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As the OP here, I haven't heard any significant negative feedback on hybrids, and plenty of favorable feedback (in the wider world beyond this thread). My gut feel is a Toyota hybrid will be a long-lasting and reliable vehicle.
My daughter and her less-than-brilliant boyfriend just got electric bicycles for themselves (his doing). I will warn them once not to have them inside the house. After that, they are on their own when the house burns down.
deadin
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I'm on my 2nd Prius (a 2006 and a 2016), The only problems I've had was needing to replace the little battery, tires and wiper blades on the 2006 (close to 100K) and so far on the 2016 (~55,000 miles) wiper blades, tires, one of the "low tire" sensors and the passenger seat belt currently thinks someone is sitting there when it's empty. (Just clicking the belt in solves that.)
No matter which way anyone goes with vehicles, without fossil fuels They go nowhere!
Fortunately
I don't think anyone is "forcing" Teslas (specifically)on us; it just seems that those with fat enough wallets buy them. In my little city of about 40,000 there seem to be a lot of them. I recently counted 5 on a routine shopping trip of about 7 miles round-trip. But "persuaded go EV", yes.
So really just fuel-agnostic routine maintenance aside from the battery on the 2006. What was the cost of the battery for that one?deadin said:
I see quite a few Priuses (Prii?) around here. They or a Subaru would likely be candidates when I eventually replace my 2011 Ford Ranger, although by that time there may be other alternatives as battery technology improves.
But I'd better do it before 2035 as our uber-progressive Federal gov't. has decided that new vehicle sales will have to be non-fossil powered by then. (If THEY are still around in 2035, that is. And even of they are, I doubt that will fly quite as smoothly as they hope.)
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DWalt
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At my stage of life, it is unlikely that I will replace the two older ICE vehicles I now own (neither of which is driven more than about 5K/year), but if I am ever in the market for another vehicle, I would at least consider buying a hybrid, never an EV (except I do own a golf cart).
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deadin
US Veteran
As I remember it was in the line of a regular lead/acid battery.-- $70 to 80.
The only PITA was it was mounted in the trunk and was hard to get at....
(The 2016 has it under the hood where it belongs)
sigp220.45
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I'm not going to wade through all of this boomer harrumphing (I'm a boomer). My favorite car was a 2010 Prius. Our kids were in 3 different states and gas was 4 bucks a gallon. That little 50 mpg bugger let us visit them when we wanted. It was cruelly murdered by a spring hailstorm in 2016. I replaced it with something else, but I still miss it.
Our 2013 Toyota Avalon has a little over 102K so we're in the market, but not for an EV or Hybrid. I'm in my late 70s and this will likely be our last car so I'll be checking out the newer Toyotas soon. I hate the buying process and am no longer up to an hours long marathon runaround. A retired police buddy loves to haggle, offered to go with me so I may take him up on that.
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As regards EV's, the WaPo has just reprinted an article from last April, which I've gifted here. (Annoyingly graphics-intensive but thorough.)
Similar complexities exist with heat pumps. Yes, they work, but the power requirements for them, due largely to the compressor, plus the need to defrost when working at very low temps indicates that they're still a "new" technology in need of a lot of development before they can be the universal panacea some would have us believe.
Clean cars, hidden toll
The underbelly of electric vehicles
What goes into making EVs, where it comes from and at what human cost
It brings up the disturbing dark side of all this "earth-saving" technology, plus this inconvenient little problem:The underbelly of electric vehicles
What goes into making EVs, where it comes from and at what human cost
China's grip on the supply chain
...Taking the minerals out of the ground is only the first step. The ore is almost never pure and needs to be refined, or processed, to become the minerals that go into batteries.
When it comes to processing, there is one major player: China, which handles more than half of the minerals critical to EV batteries..
We may "need to save the planet" but it's not as easy or simple as the fanatics would lead us to believe. ...Taking the minerals out of the ground is only the first step. The ore is almost never pure and needs to be refined, or processed, to become the minerals that go into batteries.
When it comes to processing, there is one major player: China, which handles more than half of the minerals critical to EV batteries..
Similar complexities exist with heat pumps. Yes, they work, but the power requirements for them, due largely to the compressor, plus the need to defrost when working at very low temps indicates that they're still a "new" technology in need of a lot of development before they can be the universal panacea some would have us believe.
BKLooney
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As long as there's gasoline available my butt will be sitting in my pickup that only requires one battery, the one used to start the engine.
I too hate the dealership experience but am being forced to jump into that arena.
Would your cop buddy be up for a contract job to do the haggling for me in California?
(There is a joke in there, but I won't go there.)
My daughter lives 600 miles away. I can make 500 miles of that in my Silverado on one tank, all the way if I chose to carry a 5-gallon can of gas with me. Five minutes to dump the can of gas in at a rest stop. What EV can do that? Even if I loaded a portable generator in the back, there's still a long charging time to "refill."
No one is forcing us to go electric? Someone isn't paying attention.
No one is forcing us to go electric? Someone isn't paying attention.
snowman
Member
I was going to respond to that one, but thank you for doing it for me(though I may yet add my comments if time permits).
Regards,
Andy
deadin
US Veteran
I can get pretty close to 600 miles on 1 tank. How big is the tank on the Silverado? (Mine is 10 Gallons)
. . . To me, the diesel has the most promise in the near term but, the "Establishment" won't lighten up on the diesel regulations.
Just sayin
Diesel should be the focus of environmentalists, not gas. First of all, it stinks, second it emits 15% to 20% more total carbon than gas. (correction - not CO2)
. . . oh forgot it turns to gel at temperatures lower than 15 degrees. Plenty of those temperatures here all winter. Of course, if you plug it into a wall socket, a tank heater might work . . . Just sayin
And here is my latest purchase. Just got the new CO emitter in September and the dealer said he was sorry to see it go since he could have sold it a dozen times while waiting for me to come and pick it up. He said that it was probable the last gas Charger his dealership will see. Lovely sounds come from the dual exhaust and I expect it to be the last until I no longer drive or the government takes it away from me!!
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cmj8591
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This about sums it up.
Maine forced to delay vote on EV mandate amid widespread power outages | AllSides
Maine forced to delay vote on EV mandate amid widespread power outages | AllSides
... The state proposal, though, has faced considerable bipartisan opposition from state lawmakers led by Republicans, but also from Rep. Jared Golden, a House Democrat. Golden noted this week that a strong storm would render electric vehicles useless, given their need for reliable electricity generation and supplies.
"In two days, the Maine Board of Environmental Protection will vote on proposed rules that would establish a California-style set of mandates forcing Maine auto dealers — and ultimately their customers — to purchase zero-emission vehicles," Golden said Tuesday.
"Earlier this year, I submitted testimony in opposition to such a mandate and have taken every opportunity in Congress to vote against policy that amounts to de facto electric vehicle mandates," he added. "Forcing Mainers to purchase cars and trucks powered by electricity when our grid is insufficient, charging stations are few and far between, and a storm like yesterday's would render 80% of cars useless is, to say the least, ill-advised."
Yup. Just as "an army marches on its stomach", EV's can only march on a robust and reliable grid. Same applies to heat pumps. And ideally that grid should be "green", which is not always possible."In two days, the Maine Board of Environmental Protection will vote on proposed rules that would establish a California-style set of mandates forcing Maine auto dealers — and ultimately their customers — to purchase zero-emission vehicles," Golden said Tuesday.
"Earlier this year, I submitted testimony in opposition to such a mandate and have taken every opportunity in Congress to vote against policy that amounts to de facto electric vehicle mandates," he added. "Forcing Mainers to purchase cars and trucks powered by electricity when our grid is insufficient, charging stations are few and far between, and a storm like yesterday's would render 80% of cars useless is, to say the least, ill-advised."
Oldengineer
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Does her state have a lemon law? If so, make Ford buy it back. Remember, I'm a retired Ford Powertrain guy. The hybrid Escape we own has an 8 year warranty on all hybrid system components.
cmj8591
Member
Maine receives most of it's grid power from Quebec hydro power. That's about as green as you can get. They recently passed a ballot question that outlawed Maine Central Power from expanding their transmission lines to increase the amount brought into and distributed in the US. They have been going back and forth in court and spending millions which, of course, is passed on to the rate payers. In the mean time, they continue to clear cut thousands of acres so that tax incentives for solar power and wind mills can be mined. The consumer end of the grid is fragile to say the least, with people routinely going without power for weeks after a storm like the NE just experienced. I mention these things to illustrate how disingenuous and dishonest the whole "carbon footprint" argument has become. Especially against the backdrop of realities like this. If they started today and concentrated on it continuously, it would still take at least 1, maybe 2 generations to bring the grid up to the point of reliability anything close to what we now enjoy with our fossil fuel based transportation system. Not to mention how much that scale of investment into the grid would increase cost. Yet we continue down the path of mandates and prohibitions. Enjoy your gas stove while you can.
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