Win 231 to be discontinued in the future (not sure when)...

Mike Daly is...

Mike Daly IS the director of customer service at Hodgdon.

I have a question though. What ARE the new powders he's talking about that we are supposed to move to?
 
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I am skeptical that they would discontinue one of the most popular powders on the market.

In the past I waffled between Bullseye and W231, and finally settled on Bullseye. The only area that I am not 100% satisfied with Bullseye is 230 gr hardball for my .45 auto, I think W231 may be a little better for that application.

I've wanted to try AA#2 and AA#5, but could never find them. I've pretty much settled on Alliant powders since Ive never had any trouble finding them.

I also have some Unique and Universal, but BE-86 may be a good replacement for .45 hardball loads. I have a 1# can of BE-86 that I will start on when my Unique and Universal is used up.

BE-86 is a very small flake, looks like Bullseye and 2400.
 
Hard to believe anyone would discontinue a product that is in such great demand. Kinda contradicts the whole theory of supply and demand. I assume that until the large market is gone for those old powders that they will continue to be produced. I also assume that there will be comparable substitutes introduced long before the older powders are discontinued.
 
I have been reloading for 40 odd years, but I am fairly new to pistol reloading. I came in with no preconceived notions of any powder.
I do have my favorites for rifle, so I know the feeling.
My father left me Bullseye, Unique, 2400, P5066, 231, and about 10 others.
I started buying my own powder, and bought most of the pistol powder made by Alliant, hodgdon, Accurate, Winchester. And just shot all of them to see. What I found out is most powders will do its job, but the BE86, CFE, and Autocomp keep coming back as the ones that are clean, and accurate, and can be used in any, but the full power loads.
I still use 2400, 296 for full power, but Autocomp, CFE, and BE86 can get you close to full power.

I don't need to replace 231, I have 20lbs of it, but I prefer to use BE86, CFE, and Autocomp, and sometimes WST. They are just as clean, and acccurate as 231.
BE86 is versatile enough to do away with Bullseye, and Unique.
I Have a sneaky suspicion that CFE, and Autocomp are sister powders, and the reason HS6 is going, is because it is too close to both.
For plinking there are probably 10 powders I can reach for that do just fine. No change in impact, or accuracy. Some may be dirtier, but I never cared about that, accuracy is still king.
 
Why not keep the Product and just raise the price a few bucks a Pound? Let the Customers tell You when it's time to throw in the Towel.
 
When CFE223 came out in 2012 I thought it was a gimmick.
Then the problems finding W231/HP-38 became a headache
[along with .22 rimfire] I was not sure who had the proper info
on the shortage, not that I could do anything about it.

Last year when they came out with CFE Pistol I dug out my thinking cap and dusted it off. First thought: They have taken the space to make the new powders in the space they made the W231......
I called Hodgdon and they denied it, and assured me that W231/HP-38 was still at full production, just everyone was buying it before I got to the store.....even though the 100's of people I know that use it couldn't find any...... !!!
My biggest concern was how it would meter in a 550B, and Hodgdon assured me it would as well as W231.
Next there was limited data, basically four handgun calibers.
Things have since changed, especially since the Hodgdon 2014 Annual Manual, and they added data for my sweet little .327FedMag.
I don't need any powder, and I still want to try some CFE Pistol.....
Has anyone used it in the 550B with the Dillon powder measure?

I seriously believe they will stop production on MANY old [favorite] powders in lieu of the new chemistry powders......they are more concerned with their bottom line than our wishes.

Again, has anyone run the CFE Pistol through a Dillon?

God bless,
Ozo
 
W231 is my most used pistol powder for non-magnum cartridges. I use it in everything from .32s up to .45s. What pisses me off is that once its gone I'll have to start over from scratch to work up all new loads. :mad:
Fortunately I still have 4-5 pounds of it. So by the time I run out others will have done enough experimenting to at least give me a good idea what to change to.
 
CFE meters just fine. Dillon, Hornady, or RCBS
It looks the same as HS6, so if you have used that it meters the same as.
To me autocomp, and CFE are almost indistinguishable. Look the same, shoot the same, same POI, same accuracy, same charges. I won't go as far as to say they are the same, but they are very close.

I have shot 231 back to back with CFE, BE86, HP38, WST, same POI, same accuracy, same or better metering.
I have just as many targets with BE86, and CFE that are the same.
These are from 10-15yds.
DSC_0665_zpsq8cwidke.jpg

Different pistol
image2_zps9664468e.jpeg
 
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They're also axing the Clays line, I think for the same reason.

Gee, think any of the cost-savings from the new manufacturing methods will be passed on to customers:rolleyes:
 
A few months back, about the time ANY pistol powders started to show up, my gun club Pro Shop had several 4 lb, and five 8 lb jugs of either 231 or HP-38. I picked up 4 lbs of 231 ($88). I found out late, about all of it. Then, two weeks later, more came in. I grabbed 8 lbs of HP-38 for $162. The Winchester stuff is always a bit more per pound.
 
Will the "new" powders last as long as the old; or will they decompose to **** in 5 years and make them useless? I'm very suspicious of change; especially if Government Regulations are involved.
 
I'm surprised at how many people are saying they haven't seen it in a long time. I just bought an 8lb jug of HP-38 a few weeks back, and have been seeing HP-38 1 pounders for quite a while now...like last summer it started showing up. I have around 12 pounds total of the stuff, so that will last me a very long time. They're making a mistake of you ask me.
 
I saw the same information about 231 being more difficult to
manufacture than some of the newer chemistry powders in a
Handloader magazine article by Brian Pearce a while back. I would
think that it's true but it's probably going to be a while before it's
actually discontinued. CFE and Autocomp are often mentioned as
replacements for 231. Another Handloader article about new powder
evaluation stated that while very similar in load data Autocomp and
CFE are two different powders with distinctly different pressure
curves. When I found both for sale in a LGS Autocomp was about
$3.00 a lb cheaper. It would be nice to see lists of powders considered
to be old and new chemistry.
 
I would have hoped.....

alwslate said:
CFE and Autocomp are often mentioned as
replacements for 231. Another Handloader article about new powder
evaluation stated that while very similar in load data Autocomp and
CFE are two different powders with distinctly different pressure
curves.
Click to expand...


I would have hoped that 'replacements' would be similar in characteristics to what they were replacing.:(

That's like saying Alliant would discontinue Unique, but you could substitute Herco for it.
 
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alwslate said:
CFE and Autocomp are often mentioned as
replacements for 231. Another Handloader article about new powder
evaluation stated that while very similar in load data Autocomp and
CFE are two different powders with distinctly different pressure
curves. When I found both for sale in a LGS Autocomp was about
$3.00 a lb cheaper. It would be nice to see lists of powders considered
to be old and new chemistry.
Click to expand...

What's the old saying? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, flies like a duck, and tastes like a duck. It's a duck.

I've been playing with Autocomp and CFE pistol for almost 2 years now. What I've found is that if I develop a load for one of them and then switch powders without changing anything other than the powder. The charge weight is the same without changing the setting on the powder drop. The chronoed speed of the rounds are identical from a 130 power factor minor load all the way to a 172 power factor major load. I think maybe Hodgdon sprinkled some magic Copper Eraser dust into the CFE powder but I don't think copper fouling happens until you get to rifle velocities, I only push my major loads to 1400 fps so copper fouling is not something I worry about (personally, I think it's a marketing thing:cool:) I think I've got 4# of HP38 in the back of my powder locker that I'll probably end up trading for some more AC/CFE.
 
I've wanted to try AA#2 and AA#5, but could never find them. I've pretty much settled on Alliant powders since Ive never had any trouble finding them.
Click to expand...

Same here. I gave up on Hodgdon (ADI) a few years ago. ADI's an Australian co. and not marketing powder for the US. Hodgdon brought it in and relabeled it. They are basically powder distributors, not manufacturers.

From ADI's website.
Powder equivalents, ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide

Where you see an ADI/Hodgdon equivalent, ADI makes that powder.

Alliant has for years made powder that is great for some applications but they have never marketed those powders or tested and provided load data. When the powder shortage hit people started trying all kinds of powders for cartridges that weren't even listed in the mfg. load data. When I ran out of Bullseye I found that American Select makes a pretty good 45 ACP hardball load. It also works well for 38 spl. but was originally marketed as a 12ga shotgun powder. It doesn't meter as well as BE but it burns a lot cleaner.

I use Alliant for everything I shoot now because it seems to be more available then the rest.

If you look at the above chart Alliant e3 will sub for W231.
 
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