Winchester 1892 .32-20 to the range.

[David LaPell]

Well,
I took my 1892 Winchester .32-20 to the range today. I found out a couple of things, one, the gun needs a little tinkering. I found it has an issue feeding shells into the chamber. The lifter comes up perfectly, but the shell gets stuck at that point, it comes up where it is supposed to, but the lever won't move it into the chamber, you can take your pinky nail though and it will slide right in. I got one 115 grain round to go in, the round isn't getting hung up at the front, you can see it's at the back. I am going to try giving it a really thorough cleaning (it's been around since 1894, might be gunked up somewhere) and see where I go from there.

The second issue was when I was shooting it. I put out a target at 25 yards and it was all over the place with factory Remington 100 grain ammo. You can see the bison target and where the bullets were keyholing all over the place. So those 100 grain round, definitely out.

On the plus side, my 115 grain Lyman cast handloads did so much better. You can see, at the same range, same target, while we're not talking match accuracy here, the group wasn't all that bad. I have these at a pretty low velocity since they were put together for my 1885 Low Wall. So at least these are pretty reasonable, I am not expecting long range accuracy anyway, but if I can get it to group fairly well out to 75-100 yards, I will be happy.

I took a photo with a dummy round to show where the round stops. I wonder if it could be the loading gate as I know these tend to be an issue, if so, what would be the solution? The screw is tight so not sure if the loading gate is simply worn out or not.
The gun will chamber the round if I tilt the rifle on its right side, won't on its left. It does it with either the 100 grain or 115 grain bullet.

 

[SFC Rick]

I wish I had the answer for you, but I don't know jack about it. It is a great Winchester to own and I'm so jealous of it and you. I only have recent production Winchesters. I'm sure it's something simple and easily corrected. I wish you the best, thanks for sharing the story and photos.

 

[Oscar Zulu]

Oh man, thats too bad. I would think it has been shot a lot with black powder and cleaned too aggressively. I have a '73 in 32-20 that really shoots. I'm not sure about the chambering issue. I'm wondering if that rifle may be a candidate for a caliber change to .38 or .357? I know it's a bit of a sacrilege, but you would have more variety, more power, and much cheaper choices of ammo.

 

[DWalt]

"The second issue was when I was shooting it. I put out a target at 25 yards and it was all over the place with factory Remington 100 grain ammo. You can see the bison target and where the bullets were keyholing all over the place. So those 100 grain round, definitely out."

I have read the same thing about the .32-20 Remington ammo on other websites. I reload all mine, so I don't know anything about the Remington ammo performance from personal experience. I don't know if any jacketed .32-20 bullets are still available, but if so you might want to try some of those.

 

[Muley Gil]

I once had a .32-20 M92. However, the tangs were bent and the action wouldn't lock up. I didn't have the money to get it repaired, so I sold it for a slight ($20) profit. Wish I had hung onto it and saved up the money to get it fixed.

 

[2152hq]

I'd guess it might be the carrier stop pin and/or it's (coil) spring.

The carrier stop is a small plunger that sits in the right side of the carrier itself and acts as a detent. It mearly holds the carrier in the 'up' position by the plunger snapping into a shallow cut in the left inside wall of the frame.
That cut in the frame may also just be packed with 100yrs of gunk not allowing the plunger to engage.

When the carrier stop doesn't engage for what ever reason,,the carrier itself with the round upon it drops a small amt. This occurres when the lever takes it's upward pressure off the carrier and starts it's the forward motion of the bolt to feed the cartridge..just when you need the carrier to stay in that elevated position. That's when the carrier drops down on you.

The sideways tilting of the rifle usually overcomes the problem as it allows the carrier to lay on it's side in the frame and not drop from simple gravity.
Another check to see if the carrier stop is the problem is to feed a (dummy) round. Rack the bolt back as normal, an then hold the loading gate inward with some pressure with your left hand finger(s) as you close the lever and chamber the round.
It should chamber w/out much difficulty doing this as holding the loading gate inward slightly jams it in underneath the carrier inside and holds the carrier upwards in that position as the carrier stop would do so it can feed correctly.

Take the rifle apart,,schematics abound. They are simple w/ a few tricky points that are simple if explained and pictured for you if you've never done one.

I suspect the small coil spring under the carrier stop is packed with gunk or maybe rusted. Most any hardware store replacement will do and can be found with the remnants of the original in hand.
Clean out the pocket cut in the frame that it detents in to.

Give it a good over all cleaning while it's apart.

Keyholeing is generally undersize bullets.

Fix the rifle first then you can play around with the accuracy stuff.

Here's a Numrich schematic for the 1892.
The carrier stop is #49
The coil spring is #50
The small pin that holds them in the carrier is #51

Caliber 25-20 and 32-20 use a different carrier lock size than the 38-40/44-40

1892 Schematic | Numrich

 

[AJ]

Nice rifle. I have always like Winchesters. I bought a 92 Winchester in 1975 for $75. Wish I still had it. Bought it from a gun shop in Havelock, NC. Somebody had painted the metal black to "make it look better" hanging on the wall. I was in the shop with a 1906 Winchester pump .22 having the gunsmith make sure it was safe to shoot. He asked if I like old Winchesters. Brought it out and let me look at it. I was about to hand it back when I saw "Model 1892" on the tang. Asked how much and he said $75. I bought it and took it home. I took all the wood off it and used paint stripper on it. The bluing had turned brown from age. Cleaned it and oiled it. Shot fine. Won a bet in Wisc. when a gent told me they had never made a rifle in 32-20, he paid me $100 on that bet. Old story of needed money and sold the rifle.

 

[tndrfttom]

I've had similar problems with the Remington 100 grain factory ammo - poor accuracy and key-holeing. I never pursued it since my reloads with the Lyman/Ideal 115 gr. cast bullet shot so well. (I don't have a Model 92; I have a Marlin 1894CL).

I see you seat you bullets out and crimp in the bottom of the top driving band - this makes sense since you don't want the bullets to get pushed back in the cartridge case due to recoil. Unless I crimp my bullets in the top of the driving band I can't get them to feed reliably in the Marlin. The seating depth doesn't seem to hurt accuracy. I know the photo isn't the best but perhaps you can get an idea of the seating depth I use.

 

[David LaPell]

Well, I think I am on the right track. I checked all the screws again to make sure they were tight, and I loosened up the screw for the loading gate, didn't take it out, just loosened it some, then retightened it and some gunk came out when I did. I tightened it and now the gun feeds, not 100%, but say it doesn't one out of twenty and that's with the dummy rounds that are 115 grain. I tried it from pretty much every angle, the rifle with the barrel up, barrel down, barrel level and it feeds almost every single time now. I am still going to take it apart and give it a good cleaning and hopefully that takes care of the rest of it. Thanks for all the help so far, here's hoping that it was something really small.

 

[pmanton]

I have a 25.20 that keyholes due to being shot out. I have given thoughts to having it bored out to 32-20

 

[Frank46]

If your lead bullets are keyholing could mean your bullets are not fat enough. Slug your barrel to detirmine the actual bore diameter. ould be .311,312,312 and even .314.Once you have that information any 32-20 bullwt in the 115 to 120 grain weight should perform well in your carbine. Wheel weights with 2%tin to help castability should make your carbine more accuurate. Suggested bullet would be the 3118 gas check. get one from accurate molds and specify .002 over your bore diameter. And try using the gas checks as they can turn a poor shooting load into a good shooting load.And use a bulky powder like 4227 or 2400 and check for no double charges. Those two powders should keep any bullet lead or jacketed form sticking in the bore.Frank

 

[David LaPell]

Drat, drat and double drat!

Well, I thought I had the problem licked. Once I got the 1892 up and running again. But now it won't load again. I completely took the gun apart, and cleaned many, many years of gunk out of the gun. The loading gate is tight and has plenty of tension, the ejector spring is fine, in fact it launches my dummy rounds several feet, but it will not bring the rounds up. I took the cartridge guides out and cleaned them, no burrs or issues, but that's where it seems to be hanging up.
So...back to the drawing board.

 

[AJ]

Try the guys at the Winchester Forums. I am betting one of them has seen this problem before.