Would you buy a 6-shot .38 J-frame

[rockquarry]

Given the fact that, except for the tiniest of .38s, six shot is pretty much the standard number of chambers for a revolver, you're wrong.

Not true. I based my answer on the confines of this thread which was limited to J-frame .38s, not standard number of chambers for the majority of revolvers, most or all of which are larger than J-frames and are outside the context of this thread.

 

[BBMW]

You called having 6 vs 5 shots a "mythical want". A 5-shot cylinder is an accommodation necessary to keep the gun to as mall a size as possible, and only one of size reducing feature. The only ONLY advantage of the 5-shot cylinder is size. If the other accommodations made in the current J-frame were kept, but a 6-shot cylinder of minimal size were created, and the frame aperture stretched to accommodate that, it would yield a gun that would still be usefully small for easy concealed carry, but eliminating the disadvantage of only having five shots.

Not true. I based my answer on the confines of this thread which was limited to J-frame .38s, not standard number of chambers for the majority of revolvers, most or all of which are larger than J-frames and are outside the context of this thread.

 

[rockquarry]

You called having 6 vs 5 shots a "mythical want". A 5-shot cylinder is an accommodation necessary to keep the gun to as mall a size as possible, and only one of size reducing feature. The only ONLY advantage of the 5-shot cylinder is size. If the other accommodations made in the current J-frame were kept, but a 6-shot cylinder of minimal size were created, and the frame aperture stretched to accommodate that, it would yield a gun that would still be usefully small for easy concealed carry, but eliminating the disadvantage of only having five shots.

I stand by my comments. None of this is worthy of argument.

 

[Narragansett]

Buy a 6 shot J frame? I won't even buy a 5 shot. Why IMO, lousy trigger pull, short sighting radius, and I can't hit a darn thing with them

 

[JimCunn]

Why ask an impossible question?
We all know six .38 rounds can't fit in a J-frame.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

You called having 6 vs 5 shots a "mythical want". A 5-shot cylinder is an accommodation necessary to keep the gun to as mall a size as possible, and only one of size reducing feature. The only ONLY advantage of the 5-shot cylinder is size. If the other accommodations made in the current J-frame were kept, but a 6-shot cylinder of minimal size were created, and the frame aperture stretched to accommodate that, it would yield a gun that would still be usefully small for easy concealed carry, but eliminating the disadvantage of only having five shots.

Almost, like in horseshoes and hand grenades. Another advantage of a 5-shot cylinder in a Smith & Wesson is that the bolt cut is not directly over the thinnest part of the chamber.

 

[steelslaver]

Taurus 856, J-frame size, 6 rounds, 2 or 3” barrel, half the price of a S&W. Fun, till your friends see you shooting it.

Agreed! *** S&W?

Why are Taurus triggers worse than S&W? Because they have a smaller ratchet. They can fit 6 38s into a smaller cylinder by having the rounds closer to the center because of their smaller ratchet. With S&W J frame the clearance for rim already cuts into ratchet OD. Ever ride a multi speed bike. When the driven sprocket is smaller it is harder to pedal. The ratchet is that final sprocket in a revolver. Taurus and Charter Arms both run smaller ratchets. I know I have got my hands on all of them and know how to use a set of calipers. They also have to have their hand farther in to engage said ratchet. Same way they are able to make a L frame sized 5 shot 45 while S&W only makes a 44

Why don't S&W simply use a smaller ratchet? That would also take a narrower portion of the trigger that is inside the frame so hand could move inward and a narrower hammer so the hand could clear it and of course make the hands window closer to the center. Not entirely impossible, butt not a walk in the park either.

People ask questions like why won't S&W make a 6 shot J frame 38. LOL

We can't even get them to make many J frames (or K frames for that matter) in 32 H&R or 327 mag and they don't have to redesign squat to do that. They been making 6 shot J framed sized cylinders since 1896 (I frame has same cylinder dia as J).

Why? Because they had very low demand when they did make them.

Right now there are a zillion small light 9mms that hold more than 6 rounds on the market, some of them even made by S&W. Why would they want design a new revolver to try to compete against that market

 

[342ti]

No, but then again I'd never own/buy a 38splMagnum force my friend!

 

[JWintergreen]

A six shot .38 J frame is impossible only if you, or, really, S&W (since it's their definition) define a J frame by the frame aperture size. If you define it by the section of the frame members, grip design or other design elements, Ie not the more heavily built frames like K, L, or N, than a six shot J-frame would easily designed/built, and, as noted, was done back in the 70's

Fair point. However, for marketing purposes this potential new frame size should be called something different (similar to how the "Super K" ended up being named the L frame).

 

[BBMW]

They could easily figure out the mechanism. They've done it before. And, as pointed out, and as you explained, other manufactures are currently doing it.

As far as competing with small 9mm, the J-frame competes against them, and still sells. The other six shot .38s do also. So people will buy them. And, as they poll shows, a lot of people here, most of whom already own j-frames, would be willing to buy one. If someone already has a J-frame, they'd probably be more inclined to buy one of these, than another 5 shot smubbie, because it's different, if only slightlly.

Why are Taurus triggers worse than S&W? Because they have a smaller ratchet. They can fit 6 38s into a smaller cylinder by having the rounds closer to the center because of their smaller ratchet. With S&W J frame the clearance for rim already cuts into ratchet OD. Ever ride a multi speed bike. When the driven sprocket is smaller it is harder to pedal. The ratchet is that final sprocket in a revolver. Taurus and Charter Arms both run smaller ratchets. I know I have got my hands on all of them and know how to use a set of calipers. They also have to have their hand farther in to engage said ratchet. Same way they are able to make a L frame sized 5 shot 45 while S&W only makes a 44

Why don't S&W simply use a smaller ratchet? That would also take a narrower portion of the trigger that is inside the frame so hand could move inward and a narrower hammer so the hand could clear it and of course make the hands window closer to the center. Not entirely impossible, butt not a walk in the park either.

People ask questions like why won't S&W make a 6 shot J frame 38. LOL

We can't even get them to make many J frames (or K frames for that matter) in 32 H&R or 327 mag and they don't have to redesign squat to do that. They been making 6 shot J framed sized cylinders since 1896 (I frame has same cylinder dia as J).

Why? Because they had very low demand when they did make them.

Right now there are a zillion small light 9mms that hold more than 6 rounds on the market, some of them even made by S&W. Why would they want design a new revolver to try to compete against that market

 

[BBMW]

It's too bad they jammed all the frame designations together. They should have left a few letters between them, so they could sneak new ones in, and still keep size order.

Fair point. However, for marketing purposes this potential new frame size should be called something different (similar to how the "Super K" ended up being named the L frame).

 

[GerSan69]

It's too bad they jammed all the frame designations together. They should have left a few letters between them, so they could sneak new ones in, and still keep size order.

S&W already has a frame between the J and K - the "C" frame, only used one time in an attempt to make a 6-round pocket gun. The mechanism they put in it, though, did not work the way they wanted and nearly all of the 5000 made were scrapped. The survivors command a hefty price, IF you can find one!
Google Model 73 or better yet, do a Forum search.

By the way, I posted about it back at #21 in this thread. I guess no one reads the whole thing.....

 

[BBMW]

I was aware of the gun. I forgot about the frame classification. A lot has changed in fifty years, both in the technology and gun market. Maybe it's time to try again.

S&W already has a frame between the J and K - the "C" frame, only used one time in an attempt to make a 6-round pocket gun. The mechanism they put in it, though, did not work the way they wanted and nearly all of the 5000 made were scrapped. The survivors command a hefty price, IF you can find one!
Google Model 73 or better yet, do a Forum search.

By the way, I posted about it back at #21 in this thread. I guess no one reads the whole thing.....

 

[jcelect]

An analogy of this topic!

S&W designing and manufacturing a gun, or variation, that does not sell good.

The Analogy;
A farmer wins the loto for 10 Mil and was asked what he was going to do with the money. His answer, "I'm going to keep farming until I go broke!"

 

[bronco45]

I have a new 3" KC and it is the perfect small size 357. Six shots, 357 at 27 ozs. Better fit and trigger than a modern Smith. What I want is an alloy framed new Colt Cobra for EDC in 38+P. Same sights same grips as the KC.

 

[rich5674]

grips and ammo change

No, I hate snub nose revolvers because they kick like a mule and have terrible sights. I will stick with my 4" 686-1 because it has enough weight to be a joy to shoot, but I can still carry it if needed. If I ever got a hand gun for carry I would either go .22 8 shot revolver or an auto loader. I have tried two snub nose revolvers and hated them both with a passion.

If you still have the guns try target wad cutters. Effective and low recoil. a grip change can be huge. My Js are alloy. I have no problems hooting them enough to be proficient. I'm neither young, big, or tough and do have some arthritis in my hands.

 

[rich5674]

Changes to Smiths

To make a six shot S&W would have to do pretty much what they did to create the L frame. Raise the frame, extend the hammer. It would come out smaller than a K.

But with Charter, Colt and Taurus already doing this, seems like the advantage S&W currently has is making the smallest .38 revolver.

The Colt D frame is in between the J and K in diameter. So yes raise the frame to accommodate the larger cylinder. Smith sells a ship load of J frames as they are. I suppose they have not much motivation to change that frame size

 

[BBMW]

Is Colt calling the current Cobra a D-frame, because it seems significantly larger than the old Detective Special?

As far as what Smith can sell. The probably do sell a lot of J-frames. But they could always sell more guns. As the poll attached to this indicates, a large percentage of J-frame owners would be inclined to buy the gun I've described. That's a large customer pool for the revolver market.

The Colt D frame is in between the J and K in diameter. So yes raise the frame to accommodate the larger cylinder. Smith sells a ship load of J frames as they are. I suppose they have not much motivation to change that frame size

 

[CQB60]

It’s called a K frame

 

[rockquarry]

It’s called a K frame

I think you're right.