Rastoff
US Veteran
See the video in post #273. There simply isn't video of the whole chase, but they did chase him for a while.
Yes, in my opinion, they hunted this guy down.
The Ahmaud Arbery Shooting
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Yes, in my opinion, they hunted this guy down.
max503
Member
I just haven't seen it here in St. Louis - but I don't watch a lot of TV, either. But it makes sense. I have friends in Chicago that don't know who Michael Brown was.
This case is political and is going to be used like Mike Brown case. It makes no difference the actual facts of either case. It’s strictly for the optics. The media has already made choir boy out of victim. He wasn’t, but didn’t deserve shot and killed over basically trivial accusations.
686-380
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I need the facts, in their ENTIRETY, to make a comprehensive assessment. I am uncertain we will ever get them.
No, Mr. Aubrey was probably not a saint, who is? He's dead and there's nothing anyone can do to help him.
The focus turns to the accused. While I'm just as certain they're not saints either, we have the opportunity to examine their motivations and actions to arrive at a verdict.
It won't serve anybody, well except the media, to unfairly portray the accused as brutish, bigoted thugs...unless that's exactly what they are.
Why weren't any other trespassers accosted?
No, Mr. Aubrey was probably not a saint, who is? He's dead and there's nothing anyone can do to help him.
The focus turns to the accused. While I'm just as certain they're not saints either, we have the opportunity to examine their motivations and actions to arrive at a verdict.
It won't serve anybody, well except the media, to unfairly portray the accused as brutish, bigoted thugs...unless that's exactly what they are.
Why weren't any other trespassers accosted?
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ColbyBruce
Member
I don't care if Arberry entered that house with Amelia Earhart thrown over his right shoulder and the Lindbergh baby tucked under his left arm like a football; he did nothing to affront the McMichaels family; that incident should not of cost him his life. The McMichaels over-stepped when they took up arms and left the house to pursue Arberry.
flagman1776
Member
I also think there's more to this story from the local Police and the homeowner. There's more we aren't being told.
bulletslap
Member
My opinion is skewed now toward a dumb *** mid-level thug and and dumb *** former LEO (who doesn’t seem to know he is former) and dumb *** son colliding in a hazy situation under Georgia Law; being reported by a biased media.
It isn’t murder based upon what is currently being reported.
It needs to be tried fairly under Georgia law, and who knows what the biased media is misreporting or covering up.
It isn’t murder based upon what is currently being reported.
It needs to be tried fairly under Georgia law, and who knows what the biased media is misreporting or covering up.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
What other facts do you need? What could we possibly be missing?
Let's speculate on some possibilities shall we....
What if Aubrey had robbed a convenient store an hour prior to this shooting? What if, in the process of that robbery he killed the clerk and a 5 year old kid? That would make him a monster and deserving of the death penalty. Even so, all of that would still be irrelevant to the situation at hand. Why? Because the McMichaels had no knowledge of it.
The McMichaels, and the guy who shot the video, chased a man who they THOUGHT looked like a guy who MIGHT have committed a crime. Using firearms they demanded that he follow their commands. When he didn't, they were caught unprepared and shot a guy all because they thought he MIGHT be a bad guy.
So, I ask again, what fact could we possibly be missing that would change the outcome here and make them not murdering vigilantes?
ColbyBruce
Member
“ It isn’t murder based upon what is currently being reported.”
Huh? The McMichaels armed themselves and left their home in a truck to pursue a man on foot over a matter that did not concern them at all, period. Arbery was chased for four minutes, had three shots fired at him, and was murdered. Arberry was not guilty of breaking and entering nor theft.
Huh? The McMichaels armed themselves and left their home in a truck to pursue a man on foot over a matter that did not concern them at all, period. Arbery was chased for four minutes, had three shots fired at him, and was murdered. Arberry was not guilty of breaking and entering nor theft.
bulletslap
Member
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
The above may apply in the Arbery shooting, or may not, the Court will decide.
TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
The above may apply in the Arbery shooting, or may not, the Court will decide.
bulletslap
Member
2017 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 5 - Crimes Against the Person
Article 1 - Homicide
§ 16-5-1. Murder; malice murder; felony murder; murder in the second degree
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-5-1 (2017)
(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.
(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.
(c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
(d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
Based upon the reports I have the above doesn’t apply, the Courts may have a different opinion.
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 5 - Crimes Against the Person
Article 1 - Homicide
§ 16-5-1. Murder; malice murder; felony murder; murder in the second degree
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-5-1 (2017)
(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.
(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.
(c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
(d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
Based upon the reports I have the above doesn’t apply, the Courts may have a different opinion.
gfors
Member
Regardless of Georgia’s laws, there was no moral justification, for taking this man’s life.
Footage from the homemowner of the 'trespassed' house show's white couples walking in and out of the house, kids coming arriving on bikes and entering the house in a group, all technically tresspassers.
From the homeowner's lawyer "Even if theft or damage had occurred, however, the Englishes would never have wanted a vigilante response. The Englishes did not know the McMichaels. The Englishes never enlisted the McMichaels to do what they did and do not want to be part of any effort to justify the McMichaels' actions."
The murder now going to a Grand Jury with the prosecutor reccomending premeditated first degree murder charges, likely the best the shooters can hope for at trial will be a plea deal of manslaughter.
From the homeowner's lawyer "Even if theft or damage had occurred, however, the Englishes would never have wanted a vigilante response. The Englishes did not know the McMichaels. The Englishes never enlisted the McMichaels to do what they did and do not want to be part of any effort to justify the McMichaels' actions."
The murder now going to a Grand Jury with the prosecutor reccomending premeditated first degree murder charges, likely the best the shooters can hope for at trial will be a plea deal of manslaughter.
The_Truth
Member
Every argument for the exoneration of the suspects in this case seems predicated upon proving Ahmaud's intent (according to GA statute) when he entered the home, which given the evidence or lack thereof, seems to be non existent.
If they could prove Ahmaud intended to commit a felony or burglary, they might have a shot at beating the rap, no pun intended. Sadly, I don't see any evidence to back up the assertion.
If they could prove Ahmaud intended to commit a felony or burglary, they might have a shot at beating the rap, no pun intended. Sadly, I don't see any evidence to back up the assertion.
bulletslap
Member
Moral and Lawful very often diverge, and always have unfortunately.
If Arbery had not of tresspassed, had called the police, surrendered, or not grabbed for the shotgun odds are great he would be alive today. If the Bubba's had of stayed out of they would be drinking beer and eating peanuts sitting on the couch. Too bad each person involved made a series of bad choices.
No trespass.
bulletslap
Member
Are you saying Arbery didn't trespass ? If so what is that based on ?
Not posted. Not asked to leave. No breaking and entering. Get in touch with a Georgia lawyer and find out whether I'm right.
I listened to our friend Colion Noir read to me from the law. It seemed pretty clear to me, but if you have someone who knows Georgia law better, have at it.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Why do people keep talking about this supposed trespass? Which, but the way, wasn't a trespass.
Because the McMichaels had no knowledge of whether or not Aubrey was in that house, it has NO BEARING on their actions!
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