This is a 1976 Merkel side x side 12 gauge, 28" barrel choked Full and Fuller

Just picked it up Saturday, wish I still lived in South Dakota. It's their lowest grade that I know of, a Model 8. Extractors only, case-hardened receiver, side clips, and enough locking systems to keep it tight for longer than I'll own it. The only thing I'd like better is full coverage fine rose & scroll engraving, but I don't have the wallet for that.

The cheekpiece fits me fine, but I'll have to shoot it to know for sure. Lots of people don't like the sling swivels on a shotgun, but I like the Continental look.

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Lot of gun for the money.

Wow! That's beautiful.

Congrats, nice shotgun.

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Jorge

You have one of the world's best.

70mm long chambers? Some sold for Euro use have shorter chambers.

I wrote an article on Merkel guns for, "Guns" years ago. East Germany was then still a separate country, and the batch that I examined at A &F was the largest group of ornate Merkels allowed outside their country in decades.

The importer's PR girl / escort spoke no German (!) and the managers from Merkel had no English! I don't speak German, but managed to get a good interview and handled some fine guns. The Germans did have some literature in English, and I was later taken to dinner by another PR guy who helped some. He did explain what was likely to be imported and mentioned some prices.

The Merkel shotguns were fine arms. I enjoyed seeing them.
But I don't think much came of that importer's effort. Merkel guns are still something that you need to seek out if you want one in the USA. Their admirers think it's a search well worth the effort.

Congratulations on your new gun. I hope that it puts many a pheasant on your table.

Had a Merkel model 8 also, nice gun. Same quality of the higher models, just not as fancy. Took a fair share of pheasants with it, sold it after a while for a Beretta 626 Onyx SxS. Enjoy the gun, have many fun days in the field with it. Larry

Very nice. I have a similar model, Simson shotgun made by Merkel.

"70mm long chambers?"

Yes indeed. I like that Simpson; it's my limited understanding that for many years they, Merkel's, and Saur's were manufactured by the same people at the same time. I don't know why, but quite a few older Merkels are showing up on gunsinternational.com (not an auction site).

I don't know if it's true of all German guns, but this one and the 2 Sig P6's I picked up about 10-11 years ago when they flooded the market are marked with the month and year of manufacture. That seems like a dandy practice to me.

Yep.

Merkel bought Simson and made them. The 'economy' grade without the name.

I don't know where you got your info from but according to my knowledge both were combined in the "VEB Ernst-Thälmann-Werk Suhl" around 1952 by the administration and Merkel made the guns to allow Simson to concentrate on the production of motorcycles from 1962 on. In 1968 both factories were combined under the new name of VEB Fahrzeug- und Jagdwaffenwerk „Ernst Thälmann“. Simson restarted gun manufacturing under its own name in the same factory as Merkel. I have seen also factory engraved Simson and Wolf shotguns.

Both used the Q1 stamp for better quality for export intermittently.

I have a Merkel 200E with double Greener lock, the 201E is the engraveed luxury version with nicer wood. E stands for ejectors.

They were manufactured in East Germany which was communistic. VEB translates to "business owned by the people" and the VEB's were in large industrial roof organisations that were all connecting them in many ways.

In 1950 Merkel, Gebr. Greifelt & Co, Ernst Thälmann Werk (formerly C. G. Haenel) und Fortuna-Werk (formerly Sauer & Sohn) were combined in the MEWA-Suhl.

1970 the Sauer name was dropped in East German production. There were some fine guns manufactured by independant gun smiths and engravers in the BÜHAG, Suhl, too.

Thats quite a score there Bob.
It's a beauty and i'm sure it will do well afield.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

"...and i'm sure it will do well afield."

Hah! You've obviously never seen me shoot

Those Germans probably didn't know what they were talking about when I was there.

Later Simson shotguns ARE Merkel actions etc. Think of Simson/Merkel as you would Chevy/GMC.

Good score. You would be hard pressed to find a more solidly built shotgun than a Merkel. With proper care that gun will last three life times.

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Bill Bates

Probably not. Being German does not make one a gun history buff, especially on the obscure history of state owned companies behind the iron curtain.

I have done quite a bit of research into the BÜHAG but came up with precious little details on who actually belonged to it and I know well how to do an internet search in German.

40 some years ago I bought a Rizzini O/U. It had sling swivels, needed them it was a heavy gun. Full and Full. I traded it off.

About 25 years ago I bought a Rizzini like NIB Sporting clays O/U in the box at the Kansas City gun show. It had super wood and was very nicely finished, much more so than the 1st one I had.

I could not find any information on Rizzini shotguns in the US. So I called the Rizzini factory. I do not speak Italian, everyone in their office did not speak english. Finally they pulled a gentleman out of the plant who spoke fair english.

Thre are 3 Rizinni brothers who make O/U shotguns, they add their first name initial to Rizinni. They use the same action, the price differences reflect the polish, better fit and wood. Sort of a cheaper basic, a middle range and a high dollar one. The Sporting Clay gun was a high dollar one. Their father made high dollar side by sides.

I took it to Tulsa with me, a guy knew what it was, I came out very well. This gentleman and I only spoke English, made the trade go nicely. I ended up with a Westley Richards side by side and it had the importers name on it, A&F, New York.

Compelling.

I'm going to lay my ignorance right out on the table and ask if most of these fine double guns (Merkel, Purdy, etc.), and in particular those that were made back in the day in Europe were choked full and full?

I'm sure if you commissioned the craftsmen to make one for you they would choke it however you wanted, but what was the "default" choke that was popular then?

Most people would put Purdey's in a higher, or at least more expensive, class. My opinion is just based on general reading over many years, I'm a long distance from any sort of expert.

General purpose shotguns in Europe and America were often chambered in long, full-choked barrels because they were thought to "shoot harder". There evidently is some truth to that with older gun powders. These guns were used for everything from squirrels to deer because most users couldn't afford more than one gun.

In the expensive British market the gentleman shooter had no problem ordering more than one gun, with different chokes, for different uses. Since shooting driven birds was the in thing, full chokes weren't needed for that sport.

Interestingly, I have more than once read that when an older fine gun with two sets of barrels is for sale in modern times, you will often find that the shorter, more opened choked set has seen more use than the longer, tighter choked barrels.

The standard choke for Merkel shotguns was 1/2 and full choke. Sometimes the choke is stamped with stars next to the proof stamp.

*= full
**= 3/4
***= 1/2
****= 1/4

Do you think the 1/2 is what we equivocate with improved cylinder, or would it be modified, with the 3/4 being a modified full?

This is an interesting question, what was the standard choking.

I've heard it theorized that many rack guns were choked full and full so the buyer could take it to their local gunsmith and have the chokes honed to what they desired. I find with American and continental guns in lower grade full and full is what is encountered most. Most of those would have been rack guns made to stock the worlds gun shops. It makes some sense because every little town had a gunsmith capable of honing a choke as needed.

Others theorized that most were full and full because many hunters on the lower end of the economic scale hunted lots of ground game like rabbit and deer and needed the tighter choking.

As the grade of shotguns goes up; guns seem to be choked all over the place with something approaching improved cylinder- modified being pretty average in hunting guns. That seems to be what is encounter most with vintage English guns.

My favorite side by side is a Belgian gun made for the Boston retailer William Read & Son. They were a higher end dealer. This is a higher grade gun that was obviously a special order gun. This 12 ga. SxS was made about 1900.

The Belgians were required to stamp the choke dimensions on the barrels. This gun was choke from the maker as cylinder and full. That may seem strange but is a very intelligent choking if your are in New England hunting partridge (ruffed grouse to most of us) over a good pointing dog. The choking would also would be great on waterfowl over decoys.

I could honestly go with either of the two theories as to why we so many lower grade American and Continental side by sides chokes as full and full.

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Bill Bates

I'm learning new things. Now if I could just find a cocktail party where I can work Merkels into the conversation.

Ugartechea in Spain just went out of business due to the Spanish economy and Europe problems and they were what most side by side experts agree was best of the lower priced shotguns. They did cost about $2,000 for a new, bottom of the line gun up to over $4,000 for upgrade wood and engraving. SKB Japanese shotguns start at around $2,300 and AYA Spanish guns start at around $3,000 are they now the cheapest decent side by sides?

If you're asking about new guns, I don't know. I obviously like Merkel model 8's, and I also like the discontinued Browning BSS. Both of those can be found in excellent condition from somewhere between $1200.00 -2000.00 depending on condition, styles, and accessories.

There other reasonably priced doubles out there down in the Uggy price range. There are a couple of Turkish makers that are turning out nice side by side Like the CZ guns by Huglu and the Dickinsons by Akus. Both makers make good serviceable doubles in the $1000-2000 price.

I picked up a DeHaan 28 gauge built by Huglu used down in the lower end of that price range. It has been a great little gun. Its a little shiny and flashy for my taste but I can't fault its function, fit and finish.

Then there is the used market. You can buy a lot of great American andContinental guns in the $1000-2000 price range. Unless I get the urge to have a bespoke gun manufactured I can't see myself ever buying a new side by side.

My DeHaan rainy day gun.

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Bill Bates

Of all the nice doubles mentioned in this thread, I only have experience with the BSS touted above. It was a fine Japanese made Browning 12 gauge that I acquired in the 1980s while stationed in New England. I bought it new and chose 26" barrels choked modified and improved cylinder. The rod and gun club up there was big on partridge and woodcock and assured me that was the way to go.

It was a fine shotgun, though. And, of course, I wish I still had it.

I have a 20 gauge BSS Sporter, love it.

If you can't you are traveling in the wrong circles. Larry

You're welcome at any of our "cocktail parties". They tend to be low-key and take place around a campfire or by the dog trailer.

If we're not talking about guns, we're bragging on bird dogs and lying about our shooting or the fish we caught. Hopefully cigar smoke doesn't bother you and the bartender only pours one drink, whisky.

We're a scruffy lot but pretty friendly. After the last hunt of last season.

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Bill Bates

Quote: "There are other reasonably priced doubles out there down in the Uggy price range. There are a couple of Turkish makers that are turning out nice side by side Like the CZ guns by Huglu and the Dickinsons by Akus. Both makers make good serviceable doubles in the $1000-2000 price. "

Turkey is THE place to get decent cheap SXS right now. I recently bought a brand new Yildiz SXS 20 gauge with surprisingly nice wood and great wood to metal fit, for $487 at Academy Sports. It has done well at the skeet range and on Dove, and I plan to take it Pheasant hunting in Kansas this year. It handles great and works great and hopefully it will serve me well for many years of hunting, but it is NOT a Merkel or Ugartechea. Those guns are a whole different world of quality and workmanship.

We can't take pictures worth 2 cents but this is my Merkel 26 in. 20 ga., 47E. It is a GDR gun. I had the chokes opened to Cyl. and IC. Larry

I, too have a Simson Suhl in 16 gauge. sweetest, non Smith & Wesson that I own. I paid $350 for it at a local pawn shop i deal with. It may be the prettiest firearm i have.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

OP, I'm envious.

I love basic double-trigger, extractor-only side-by-sides, and that's a beauty.

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Oh well, what the hell.