S&W Factory Horror story

[TonyR]

I spent the month of July in CT visiting family, so rather than mail in a 637-2 for a frame repair I brought it to the factory in person.Having been there many times in the past I thought it would be the best way. Well you can no longer enter the factory building, instead you have to leave the gun with security at the front gate with a note describing the work requested. You can't speak with a shop person and have to wait a week before someone calls with an estimate. Once it was determined that a new frame was in order, I was told that it would go next to the laser engraving dept where the original serial number would go on the new frame and I could pick it up.When I called to inquire I was told that the frame went through the regular production line and that it received a new serial number.It was no longer possible to pick up the gun, instead it would have to go to a FL FFL of my choice and be re-registered as a new gun. This cost me $25.When I got it back the trigger was rough and after much work I found the cylinder star was rough and burred which interfered with the hand at lock-up. A trip to the range for a test of the gun showed that it did fire point of aim at 15 yards but after ten shots I opened the cylinder to eject the brass and the bolt that engages the ejector along with its spring fell out . It seems that the pin which retains these parts had been installed improperly and had fallen out during the first five rounds or so. When I called to get a new pin I asked how this could happen and was told that these pins are not fitted but instead are placed half way in and then slightly bent before they are forced in the rest of the way thus making them fit tight. The tech. must not have bent the pin enough was their response. Now I have to wait god knows how long for the parts to arrive and fix it myself. I'm glad that this gun did not fall apart at a more critical time.I have owned many Smiths in the past and have always had good luck and excellent service when needed but the quality of both the parts and the service has gone way below acceptable in my opinion.

 

[jframefreak]

Hope it all works out for you. Had to send a 686-6 back last week. I don't like spending hard-earned cash on something only to find it has a defect.

 

[bodger]

Seems like quality has slipped on many name brand guns in the recent past.
I guess S & W is too busy getting the locks to work.

 

[MaineProbation]

How it used to be...

I grew up in Northampton, MA, about 20 miles from S&W in Springfield. I went there often to the Service Department and was always treated like an old friend. I used to buy used S&W's very cheap back in the 1960's and would take them to the factory to be refinished and would end up with a gun that was BETTER than new. They would often install new parts, tune up the revolver, and only charge me for refinishing which, in those days, was about $5 or so. On one of my trips, I was introduced to Bill Gunn, President of S&W (yes, Gunn was really his last name). He gave me a factory tour and showed me several new prototypes. Now I was basically a nobody, a young guy in my early 20's. That's the way it used to be. But then again, beer used to be a nickel, a hero was someone who fought for our Country, and we said a prayer every morning before starting school.

Are times better today? You tell me.

 

[alaskavett]

How it used to be

Back when America was AMERICA!!!

 

[MaineProbation]

Good to hear from a Wasilla resident!

Tell Sarah we love her. She has more character in her little finger than all the rest of the politicians combined! God bless America!

 

[kcoruol]

What?
You tried to take in gun into a gun factory?!!

 

[raveneap]

Bought my new 637-2 a little less than 2 years ago. Out of the box the action was rough and the thumb release gritty. First time out after a few rounds, the cylinder wouldn't open . After working the thumb release several times, it finally opened. Sent it back to SW and when it came back the invoice said "Repaired bolt" and meets their specs. Didn't get to take it out for a while and when I did, it had the same problems with the exception that the cylinder did open ok but action was stillrough. Sent it back again. After some time it came back with exactly the same notes as the first time. And same apparent condition. Action is still gritty - not like we've come to expect from SW. It sits in the safe now and may well become trading fodder down the line. I still own several Smiths and have another on order. No question that the old ones are superior to the newer models but even my more recent ones are head and shoulders above the 637. Probably the only Smith I ever regretted buying.

 

[MaineProbation]

I'm not surprised

Back in the "good old days" many S&W employees were shooters themselves and those who were not were likely to be "old school" employees or former military who understood that their product was serious business and might have to be used for defensive purposes. Thus, when a piece left the factory floor or service department it was "good to go."

I suspect that today S&W has a number of employees who might just as well be flipping burgers or greeting customers at the local China-Mart.

"Dude, you want fries with that 637?"

 

[SmithNut]

Just another angle

There are two parts to this story, it appears. One - the repair (or lack of, if that's the case), and two - the need to send back to an ffl holder, etc. I'm not sure if there ever was a policy at S&W that they'd accept walk in repair work, it has been reported here over the years as having been done, while someone waited and the gun was returned to said person. That being said, this example indicates a lapse of time (a week) before any word came about the repair, which indicates that the gun was officially accepted by the factory. The problem now is that the factory, like any other FFL holder cannot simply "deliver" a handgun back to an owner that isn't a Mass resident, as that isn't allowed by BATF rules. It would have to be shipped to an ffl holder in the owner's state and re-transferred back via normal procedures.
I can't fault the factory for this, nor the fact that they cannot accept walk in work, it's not something I find anymore in business of just about any kind.
On the subject of repairs, can't comment, there seems to be a real significant difference in experiences reported here from folks that have used the factorie's service department, some good, some not so. I'm sure there are lots of factors to include personal expectations, communications on the front end, etc.
The issue of someone from another state dropping in for repair and expecting to return home with his/her gun is an interesting one, if it was set up ahead of time that they could wait for repairs, then I suppose that is one way to get things done, but one cannot officially transfer a handgun to a non-resident of the state, so that part is normal and customary, IMO.
There is a provision for a factory repair to be shipped directly back to an owner's address without the need for an FFL, but I believe (not sure, someone would need to confirm) the original shipment of the gun would have to come directly from the owner's address to be returned there. Whether or not the factory can (or would) ship a gun directly to someone that physically delivered a gun to the factory is something I cannot comment on from a legality perspective.

 

[Amici]

The problem now is that the factory, like any other FFL holder cannot simply "deliver" a handgun back to an owner that isn't a Mass resident, as that isn't allowed by BATF rules. It would have to be shipped to an ffl holder in the owner's state and re-transferred back via normal procedures.

Do you have a cite for this?

There is no change in legal ownership, thus no "transfer" to be recorded. I have shipped guns back to the factory and had them shipped directly back to me on exactly that basis. This would also include custom work by an licensed dealer or gunsmith.

There is a provision for a factory repair to be shipped directly back to an owner's address without the need for an FFL, but I believe (not sure, someone would need to confirm) the original shipment of the gun would have to come directly from the owner's address to be returned there. Whether or not the factory can (or would) ship a gun directly to someone that physically delivered a gun to the factory is something I cannot comment on from a legality perspective.

Precisely my point. Note that I hand-delivered a crap-as-shipped PC gun to the factory (specifically, the guard house at the gate) for repair. The gun was, IIRC, shipped directly back to me. As it was almost 6 years ago, I cannot be absolutely certain. I DO know that it was not shipped to the FFL as a transfer; NO new 4473 or state form whatsoever.

While the idea of simply dropping in for a "repair-while-u-wait" is not S&W policy, I believe the impediment is far more likely to be logistics than law.

 

[sceva]

As I read the original post, it appears that the frame was replaced with a different serial number. That is what required going thru an FFL. If they had rapaired his revolver or marked a blank frame with his old serial number (that is allowed) they would have returned it directly to him. It was the S/N that made the difference.

Quote : When I called to inquire I was told that the frame went through the regular production line and that it received a new serial number.It was no longer possible to pick up the gun, instead it would have to go to a FL FFL of my choice and be re-registered as a new gun. : End Quote

 

[SmithNut]

Amici,
While there is no transfer/change of ownership, the context of my post relates to them having to put the gun on their books, i.e., if you wait and they can repair and hand back I'd believe there would be no need to log in or out. Since this lapsed over time, they had to put it on thier books, and then had to transfer out again. This is now an area where, I believe, an FFL holder has an issue, they cannot simply transfer to someone from another state, that just happens to be physically in their state. I'll let FFL holders speak to this, whether true or not, and whether or not there is a workaround.
I too have shipped from my home to the factory guns needing repair and received them back at my home without ffl involvement. I believe things get more dicey if you drop it off with them and expect them to ship back to your home address, but cannot confirm.
You may be right that logistics are key to this, I believe that is an over-riding factor as well, but do believe that a transfer to a non-resident is also an issue. There are different rules for Gunsmithing/factory repair, or used to be anyway, but it's not as flexible as it once was from what I've heard and witnessed locally.
We'll see, maybe an FFL holder or licensed Gunsmith can comment.

 

[Bullet Bob]

"What?
You tried to take in gun into a gun factory?!! "
__________________________________________

Would you take your Ford to Detroit (or wherever it was really built) if it needed a new alternator?

 

[walnutred]

I agree that things seemed to be better in the past, but not everything was perfect. A year or so ago someone posted pictures of a pre war K frame that the factory had forgotten to cut the forcing cone. In the late 70's I was shown a m10 that had no charging holes finish reamed. A 38 Special would not fit into any of them.

 

[rchance]

I believe everyone's missing the point. He took the gun in to be repaired and he still ends up repairing the gun himself. What kind of deal is that? Let me see, well your in a situation where your needing to fire your weapon because someone has their weapon trained on you and yours doesn't work. Excuse me sir, can we exchange guns? Or better yet sir I'll give you this piece of crap smith if you don't rob or shoot me.

 

[durco]

but the quality of both the parts and the service has gone way below acceptable in my opinion.

......along with the rest of America. This is so darn frustrating, and there seems to be nothing Americans who care can do about it!
Mike

 

[gizamo]

When I called to inquire I was told that the frame went through the regular production line and that it received a new serial number.It was no longer possible to pick up the gun, instead it would have to go to a FL FFL of my choice and be re-registered as a new gun.

Amici,

In reading the OP, this really is what this is all about. The Frame recieved a new Serial Number. That was the reason for the gun being sent to a FFL. It is basically now considered the same as any new gun transfer.


giz

 

[RWJ]

Factory drop off/ home shipping

While it has been about 5 years, I did drop a gun off at the front gate of S&W while traveling north in Mass on a trip. They did the estimate within a week, called, and I approved the work and gave payment info. Upon completion, the gun was shipped to my residence, without any FFL involved, so it was possible, at least as recent as 5 years ago.

FWIW

 

[ambassador]

My Smith 686 IL works just perfectly,not one problem with factory or reloads what so ever .Love my IL 686P.