The "Plug" for a S&W J-Frame

[enidpd804]

Thanks. I figured it out.

 

[38-44HD45]

So, by removing the flag, that disables the lock from engaging itself under recoil?

Yes. The lug that actually locks the hammer is a little lump on the side of the "flag" itself. Remove the flag, you've removed the lug, and it cannot lock. That's all I've done, so far, to my 340PD lock.

If the spring for the fork were to fail, what could possibly happen?

The fork spring is a coil, compression spring. With the plug in place, the spring is almost fully compressed, with no place to go, best I can tell. If it collapsed and lost all spring tension (HIGHLY unlikely) in theory, the fork might be able to move forward enough to release the plug, but the spring is so close to going solid with the plug in place, I'm not sure it would release. If it did, at least in my 625, I think the result would be a plug that floated back and forth in the hole a little, but I don't think anything would hang up. If the fork itself could get loose, it might hang something up, but it doesn't look to me like it could get loose into the internals.

I don't suppose the spring could fail, but how long could that spring stay at the proper tension to keep the Plug in place? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years?

The "proper tension" of the spring is not going to be critical. One thing for certain, the likelihood of the plug or fork coming loose for any reason is a HELLUVA lot less than that of the flag locking up the gun. If anyone with a remotely mechanical bent looks closely at the unmodified internal lock, he marvels at why they don't self-lock more often than they do.

Please see questions answered within the quote.

 

[Super Trucker]

Great idea, I hope to get one of these myself.

I have a j-frame 340sc (silver color like a 642), the for sale ad says the plugs are stainless or blue. Is there a plug that would match the color of these scandium guns?

 

[Armed012002]

This looks to be a nice solution.

I will have to buy some plugs for a 386, 686, and 617

 

[davemercer]

My dealer just located a NO lock 442. I am a happy camper and am scheduled to pick up this Friday. They are out there and I hope smith gets the message, that people do not like the locks. There are other smiths I would consider buying, if they were available with no locks.

 

[Armed012002]

If you feel so strongly against the internal lock, you should call and email Smith & Wesson to let them know.

Be polite, obviously.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

On color you can make the bright finish a matt by taking the wifes green scrab pad from the sink and go over it. If the blue isn't dark enought spray with flat black.

 

[38-44HD45]

If you feel so strongly against the internal lock, you should call and email Smith & Wesson to let them know.

Be polite, obviously.

Many folks have done so, and many more feel as strongly as I do, some even more. (I do own two Smiths that originally were equipped with locks. I know a number of folks who love Smiths, but won't own one that ever had a lock.) However, one should remember that S&W is owned by Saf-T-Hammer Corporation, a British company. No matter how polite, rational, logical, loyal, trustworthy, obsequious, purple, clairvoyant*, pretty or sexy one might be with letters and e-mails, Saf-T-Wesson won't care. As long as people keep buying the lock-equipped guns, they won't change.

*With thanks to Steve Martin.

 

[davemercer]

Many folks have done so, and many more feel as strongly as I do, some even more. (I do own two Smiths that originally were equipped with locks. I know a number of folks who love Smiths, but won't own one that ever had a lock.) However, one should remember that S&W is owned by Saf-T-Hammer Corporation, a British company. No matter how polite, rational, logical, loyal, trustworthy, obsequious, purple, clairvoyant*, pretty or sexy one might be with letters and e-mails, Saf-T-Wesson won't care. As long as people keep buying the lock-equipped guns, they won't change.

*With thanks to Steve Martin.

What the management of smith needs to understand is that this is America. And in America we don't buy guns solely because we need them, we buy a lot of guns because we want them.

This in turn means the market is not finite. You can increase the number of guns sold, if you have guns American want. Don't all raise your hands, but how many have guns they really don't need, but have simply because they want them? Yes we use and enjoy these guns, but we don't need them.

A lock to myself and many others is a turn off in regard to buying what is a discretionary purchase.

 

[johnchamp]

i my self agree i wont buy a s & w with the lock & mim parts too! mim parts are just as bad as the lock

 

[surveyor47]

What the management of smith needs to understand is that this is America. And in America we don't buy guns solely because we need them, we buy a lot of guns because we want them.

This in turn means the market is not finite. You can increase the number of guns sold, if you have guns American want. Don't all raise your hands, but how many have guns they really don't need, but have simply because they want them? Yes we use and enjoy these guns, but we don't need them.

A lock to myself and many others is a turn off in regard to buying what is a discretionary purchase.

I just had an Internal Lock Failure today when range practicing with my concealed carry weapon a 642-2. Why do I need a concealed carry weapon which is fundementally unreliable? Never mind liking or disliking a gun. This is a personal defense weapon which is carried to protect life. This is not some range toy.

 

[brady272]

smith and wesson with locks

guys and girls, its very simple, do not, do not, buy smiths with the gun locks. there are so many nice, older smiths out there without the locks. maybe smith would wise up with the lost of new sales.

 

[davemercer]

I just had an Internal Lock Failure today when range practicing with my concealed carry weapon a 642-2. Why do I need a concealed carry weapon which is fundementally unreliable? Never mind liking or disliking a gun. This is a personal defense weapon which is carried to protect life. This is not some range toy.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on needing a dependable gun for protection. From your experience and those of others I would never carry a Smith with an internal lock for protection.

However, I also don't like the locks - period. I think this opinion is shared by others as well. So even for range guns I will not buy a Smith with an internal lock. My point is I believe many of us have guns we really don't "need", but have them because we enjoy having guns. Bottom line is I suspect my collections of Smith handguns would be larger if they were more available without locks.

I am a customer that will buy more than I "need" but you have to offer a product that I like. Perhaps these Brits do not understand that a big part of their market is people who own multiple guns far in excess of what they "need."

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Some people don't like the locks, so be it. But don't tell people what and not to buy. I would take a lock on a new S&W over that other junk and tupperware that is made. That is like saying if you own a glock then you need to put your butt on a plane and move to where they are made. Nothing is wrong with the new Smith's, pull the lock stuff out and put a plug in it. That will solve the problem, I didn't come up with the plug for the money, I did it so a young person can buy a new Smith and be proud to own it. There are a bunch out there already that are very happy with it and the looks of the guns after the fact. This forum is a family, the people in the 1856 section has respect for this section and like wise from here. So don't cry about it, do something to help. That is like telling your kid not to buy a ford but buy a toy instead. I have olds ones and I have new ones and I support S&W 100%, because I what my Great Grand Child to be able to buy a new one and be proud of it. Then take it to the range with one of mine and have fun.
My 2 cents

 

[exfebee]

Guys, if you don't like the ILs, then do something about it. S&W isn't going to change the IL design and stop making them. They don't really care or give a rat's behind. As John said put a Plug in it. It is really simple to do. If you ever put any toy together for your kids, you can put in one of John's Plugs. Screw Driver & a paper clip is all you need. They fit perfect & he has the lengths down pat for all the frame thicknesses, as well as the stainless, blue, and matte. If your blue gun is beat up & rusted you can scratch one of John's Plugs on the sidewalk & make it look like your gun. The Plug Job takes about 10 minutes. Do it between TV commercials or even while you're on your first beer. Simple to do & looks super. this little tid bit is for any procrastinators .. you can do it !
Carl

 

[Armed012002]

I think a more likely option Smith & Wesson would choose would be to redesign the internal lock.

I don't know the mechanics involved, but having a Ruger style internal lock in the grip would look a whole lot better than having a hole above the cylinder release. Could this be done with a leaf spring rather than the coil spring that Ruger uses? The type of spring is the only outward visual difference that I could see.

By the way, Bullseye Smith, I sent you a PM. Jeff Quinn at GunBlast.com would like to review the "Plug."

I would like to see your plug become a successful product.

 

[Armed012002]

Funny thing is that Smith & Wesson actually makes "plugs" for internal locks.

Check out the M&P semiauto. Where the lock is, there's a plug on non lock equipped models.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Thanks Georgia, and I will send him one or two. I just copied what Iggy had to say about it in another section:

QUOTE=Iggy;1119959]Well Boys and Girls, If I can do it, you can too.
I am danged handy with barbed wire but I ain't no gun crank by anybody's definition, but I got her did.

I watched the link below a couple of times and tied into my wife's 642.

YouTube - S&W Internal Lock Removal

I did a little cussin' getting the lock thingy out, but puttin' the plug in it's place warn't hard at all.

I took out the flag and the lock and the plug matches up purty as a speckled pup. John put a brushed finish on mine and it matches the screws and cylinder release just like it was factory made.

If you got any reservations about trying John's little invention, git over them and git to it.

John, Thank you Sir, for coming up with this fix for the wart on the side of the newer Smiths.

Regards,
Iggy[/QUOTE]

 

[poorfish]

Installed mine

The install was super easy and plug looks great. The only problem I had was the hammer block fell out when I removed the side plate. This being the first time I have ever removed the plate I had no clue where it went. And the internal lock video didn't have a hammer block. With some S&W forum site searching I figured it. Thanks a bunch to the forum member and John for making the plug.

 

[JWiley]

Just put one in my J. Simple. Only question is since I left the flag in, which way should the notch on the inside face? Forward or to the rear?

As a side note to others doing it, if the trigger feels frozen when you try to pull it during disassembly, make sure it is fully pushed in to the frame. Mine tends to try to slip out and I have to push it back in to unfreeze the trigger.