Shoot The Dog?

[xrmattaz]

All good points.

I'm the epitome of the dog worshipper, but/and I think the best case scenario would have been the elimination of the dog. I don't know if I would have done such, and would likely have reacted exactly the same as the OP, until the dog started causing me (or my dog!) personal harm.

But, this dog (or his owners), no longer have a right to co-exist with neighbors, IMO.

My dog(s) don't attack people, nor other dogs.

 

[sheriffoconee]

Let's don't call it a "warning" shot, it is correctly called a "distraction" shot, and it solved the problem at the least intrusive level....seems fine to me...you were there, we weren't, and you solved the problem...

 

[flop-shank]

The safest and most effective shot for such a predicament is to shoot downward through the dog's hips, keeping the bullet as far away from you as possible while disabling the dog. A dog shot in such a manner will scream bloody murder, but as far as I'm concerned is still dangerous and should be shot again quickly and killed. But this must all be done very quickly or you will likely draw all kinds of public scrutiny and outrage.

Excellent post and awesome info from an experienced cop. Thanks for adding something to my bag of tricks, Dave.

 

[cmort666]

1. I'm not the animal control officer.
2. I don't carry chemical sprays for dogs OR people.
3. I don't do "warning shots". If something or somebody doesn't need to be shot, you shouldn't be shooting AT ALL. I'll risk a bullet going some place I don't want it to in order to stop a threat. I won't do it to SCARE a threat, dog OR human.
4. Once a dog makes violent unwanted contact with me or anything attached to me, it's a threat.
5. If you don't want your dog to get shot, prevent it from being a threat to others. If that's too hard to grasp, you shouldn't have a dog.

 

[Kanewpadle]

1. I'm not the animal control officer.
2. I don't carry chemical sprays for dogs OR people.
3. I don't do "warning shots". If something or somebody doesn't need to be shot, you shouldn't be shooting AT ALL. I'll risk a bullet going some place I don't want it to in order to stop a threat. I won't do it to SCARE a threat, dog OR human.
4. Once a dog makes violent unwanted contact with me or anything attached to me, it's a threat.
5. If you don't want your dog to get shot, prevent it from being a threat to others. If that's too hard to grasp, you shouldn't have a dog.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm glad things turned out well for the OP.

 

[scoutsdad]

I have had more than a couple of occasions to fire at song dogs bothering my dogs on our walks.

But only once did I fire my gun in a situation with a neighbors dogs.

Story was I walked my blind 14 YO diabetic dog Scout on a easement on my property. My neighbors Great Dane and 2 cattle dogs ran down hill at a fast clip and blindsided Scout. They were going at pretty good I pulled my M66 and fired the first round snakeshot into the air. That stopped the small dogs, but the dane was still on Scout. I had my gun to the dogs head and was about to pull the trigger when my neighbor who had been 50 ft back grabbed his dog and kicked the stuffing out of him.

Poor Scout never really recovered from the fight, he has since crossed the Rainbow bridge.

 

[Capt Steve]

I love dogs but...

The problem with an aggressive Pit Bull (or similar breed), is that once they attack and lock on the victim, human or canine, is in a world of excrement. Getting them off is almost guaranteed to bring serious injury and in the mean time the victim is likely seriously injured or dead. We had some fool who would release their Pit Bull in the wash adjacent to our community every morning for sport. One walker heard this POS actually telling his dog to "Go get em boy!" The dog attacked several resident and nearly killed one small dog before his owner could pull his dog free incurring severe injuries in the process. The response time for the sheriff made calling them problematic. Upon responding after the dog had fled the deputy instructed to just shoot the damned dog, and to do so at a reasonable distance, if he ever comes back.

 

[ColbyBruce]

You did good

I work for the USPS and have been attacked by dogs maybe eight times in twenty-three years, bitten three, only once has the skin been broken. The spray we are given to fend off dogs seems to have little affect, if any at all. I have found the hard plastic letter trays to be quite effective when deployed upon the head on an incoming canine.

 

[TennTony]

Thanks to all of you for your responses. It looks like less than 20% actually favored shooting the dog. I obviously agreed with the other 80%, as judged by my actions.

Sheriffoconee got it absolutely correct, it was not a warning shot. I fired into my rain soaked lawn and knew exactly where the bullet would be found. I was positive, before I pulled the trigger, that the muzzle flash and muzzle blast would drive the dog away. This was a situation involving an animal, not a human. Comments about confrontations with humans have no relevance to the subject of this thread.

Part of the problem is I am not at all afraid of dogs. I have confronted other dogs and been bitten occasionally, but always felt I controlled the situation. I felt that if I did not drive the dog away I would be bitten, possibly severely. It never occurred to me to get back in the car. I was simply going into the house. Had I not had the gun on me I would have pulled out my tactical folder, planning to use it if necessary. I do not retreat in fear when faced with a single dog. I do not carry pepper spray or other non-lethal human or critter repellents. Why should I? I have my gun.

I was not in the park, out for a walk, or in any other public venue. I was in my own driveway. Even in my normally quiet neighborhood, virtually no one is out walking or walking their dogs at 9:00 p.m. (1.5-2 hours after dark). Add to that the fact that I live on what is essentially a dead end street. I believe my actions were entirely safe for myself, my neighbors and, ironically, the dog. As well as effective in ending the confrontation.

I guess I could get one of those aerosol air horns people take to football games, it would probably work too. The simple truth is I chose to use my gun as a noise maker rather than a lethal weapon. The situation did not require lethal or non-lethal force, only a loud noise & bright flash. Hmmmm, when is a gun not a gun?

BTW It is a Federal crime to use wasp spray for any of the uses mentioned in this thread.

 

[Krull]

You did the same as I do,I live in the back country and dogs always seem to find their way to me if they get loose (or are left loose) and they chase my cats.

I fire a shot over their heads first-they run they live,if they don't then it turns into aimed fire and puppy becomes plant food.

I'd say 99% of them run like the devil is after them with a gas can and matches.

 

[ltcdoty]

The problem with an aggressive Pit Bull (or similar breed), is that once they attack and lock on the victim, human or canine, is in a world of excrement. Getting them off is almost guaranteed to bring serious injury and in the mean time the victim is likely seriously injured or dead. We had some fool who would release their Pit Bull in the wash adjacent to our community every morning for sport. One walker heard this POS actually telling his dog to "Go get em boy!" The dog attacked several resident and nearly killed one small dog before his owner could pull his dog free incurring severe injuries in the process. The response time for the sheriff made calling them problematic. Upon responding after the dog had fled the deputy instructed to just shoot the damned dog, and to do so at a reasonable distance, if he ever comes back.

A few years back a lady was walking her small dog in a local park, when the dog was attacked by a pit bull that was let off the leash by the owner. A passerby intervened to help the woman, and the pit bull went after him, sinking his teeth into the good Samaritan's arm.

The Samaritan calmly picked up the dog that was still attached to his arm and walked into the park pond and laid down on the dog and drowned it.

A pretty cool cucumber...

 

[cmort666]

The Samaritan calmly picked up the dog that was still attached to his arm and walked into the park pond and laid down on the dog and drowned it.

A pretty cool cucumber...

I have it on reliable information that I'm that cold blooded, I just don't know if I'm strong enough!

 

[Frailer]

...BTW It is a Federal crime to use wasp spray for any of the uses mentioned in this thread.

While this statement is technically correct, 7 USC 136 relates to environmental pesticide control.

FWIW a shot fired into the ground meets my definition of a "warning shot," but it's no skin off my nose if it doesn't for others.

In any event, I'm glad you were unhurt. As I stated earlier, if you walk away from a dangerous encounter you did the right thing.

 

[38-44HD45]

Do you carry a cell phone? What's the police response time in your area? How about getting back in your vehicle and calling the police? I'd rather have the police shoot your neighbor's dog than you do it; creating all kinds of bad feelings from your neighbor. I'll second carrying OC.

Then you could just hand the phone to the dog, once you got the 911 dispatcher, and the dispatcher could talk the dog down and appeal to its tender nature...

I've had to shoot three dogs in self defense or defense of my children or pets over the years. Two were feral, likely dumped in the country by irresponsible city folks, one was a neighbor's dog, and the neighbor had moved away and abandoned the dog. My brother has had to shoot two dogs, both belonging to drug dealers, when he was serving warrants and the owners wouldn't call off the dogs. None of these shoots were fun, all were necessary. I love dogs, my brother loves them even more, but not all dogs are lovable, and more importantly, none are human.

The OP did well, but was lucky. Likely, I'd have shot the dog, but avoiding neighborly disputes is a good thing. I just learned of a young man of my son's acquaintance who was murdered in Houston over the weekend, because his neighbor thought his music was too loud; not really as big a problem as a vicious dog, I'd say. However, a Pit that has attacked a human will probably do it again, so the OP should be prepared to put the dog down the next time. He's bought and paid for now.

 

[Dogguy]

As you can see by my handle, I'm a dog lover from way back.

You would have been perfectly justified in shooting the dog. But you did the right thing and saved a hassle with your neighbor, so it all worked out.

 

[kingwc]

I too am a dog lover and all the stray dogs in the neighborhood end up at my house and never leave. I will however not tolerate a vicious dog in any way. There are too many children around including my grandchildren.

We live in the country and a few years ago two pit bulls showed up chained to dog houses on the property across from our house that has been empty for years. It turns out that the owner of the dogs was put in jail and a lady dog warden had put the dogs there on her own so they would not be put down.

The dogs got loose twice and came into my yard and was aggressive to my dogs and my wife. We called the humane society and the lady came and tied the dogs then she came on my property and said if we did not tie our dogs she would pick them up and have me arrested.

I told her the dogs were on my property and that she had no right to pick them up. She left in a huff and said she would be back.

A few days later my wife called me and said one of the pit bulls was loose and in our garage and would not let her in the house.
I told my wife I was on my way and to go in the other door and to call the humane society and tell that "B" that if the dog was still there I would shoot it and bring it to her office.

As I pulled into my drive the lady was leaving with the dog after telling my wife she was coming back the next day to pick up our dogs for being loose on our property.

The next morning I went to the sheriffs office and told him what happened and that the next time one those dogs came into my yard I was going to shoot it and bring the body to his office along with my lawyer.

He could not believe this happened and assured me that he would take care of it. When I got home the dogs were gone and I later learned lady warden had been fired and charged for endangering the public and harboring vicious animals.

 

[chp]

OP - you achieved the desired result and kept your head. Well done! I applaud your actions and cool headedness.

I suggest that you decide - ahead of time - what you will do if the dog shows aggression to you or yours again.

 

[photoman]

I was positive, before I pulled the trigger, that the muzzle flash and muzzle blast would drive the dog away.

How did you know this? I think 38-44HD45 is right, you got lucky. Please be prepared to shoot the dog next time. Your safety and the safety of your neighbors depends on it.

I've spent the better part of the last 20 years saving abandoned and neglected dogs but would not think twice about shooting a dog that is attacking me.

 

[TennTony]

How did you know this? I think 38-44HD45 is right, you got lucky. Please be prepared to shoot the dog next time. Your safety and the safety of your neighbors depends on it.

I've spent the better part of the last 20 years saving abandoned and neglected dogs but would not think twice about shooting a dog that is attacking me.

Living with and observing dogs for most of my 61 years. Cannot readily quantify this, but I was absolutely sure. Factors that come into play: apparent age of the dog, obvious lack of training, posture.... It borders on intuitive, but is more analytical than that. Excepting a very small percentage of specially trained dogs, I believe 99+% of dogs will exhibit the same response to the stimulus I provided. The odds were overwhelmingly in my favor.

I would not be surprised if the dog has a ruptured ear drum. The first encounter was not pain free for the dog. I am guessing it will avoid me in the future. I don't think the dog is stupid, just improperly trained. If there is a second encounter I doubt it will survive.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I am a dog lover. Have always had one in the family. I, like you thought I could read or guess how a dog would react.

I got bit not once but twice!

They drew blood but it was nothing serious although it could have been. Quick thinking and even quicker reflexes saved me.

Since being bit I have "showed" my gun to two other dogs. Both pitbulls. They each were smart enough to know that they were going to loose the fight before it started and they stayed away.

Getting bit didn't hurt much but it scared the hell out of me. It'll never happen again.