The end of the Steel Pistol?

[10ring]

While I am a fan of the 3rd gen guns and like the steel and alloy construction, it would be interesting if S&W had produced the same guns with a polymer frame.

I don't know if that would have been possible, but I would certainly have been interested in a poly-framed 3913 or 3953.

 

[ericlw]

I was at a gun show this last weekend, and couldn't help noticing how many tables were in the majority occupied by the more modern polymer-based guns- I actually thought about some of the older handguns I didn't see for sale and the list was pretty extensive.

this is why i dont goto gun shows anymore.plus the fact if your not looking for a glock,kimbre,glock,taurus,glock, you wont find anything good.

 

[ericlw]

I think they both will survive, plastic guns are cheap to produce and have advantages overs metal guns, lightweight and corrosion resistant, with CNC mills metal guns now are much less labor intensive to produce so those will stay also but demand premium prices, the "classic" revolvers for example. We have they best of both worlds.

i havent seen any "cheap" plastics guns.

 

[quneur]

i havent seen any "cheap" plastics guns.

Hi-point, Kel-tec, IO Hellcat, Sccy, etc.

 

[TACC1]

I guess we can forget about the 10th rule of a gunfight.
Instead of being beat to death with your own empty firearm,
it'll be "badly bruised" with your own empty plasti-form. TACC1

 

[blujax01]

Hopefully with S&W stock still tanking, they will be bought out by a gun company. Then maybe we will get some more nice 3rd generation pistols.

If anyone there now was a gun guy, the Melonite integral rail 4566TSW's would be in the catalog and available to the public.

No matter, they made a ton of very nice handguns in the past and I satisfy myself buying those. Regards 18DAI.

There is much truth to your observation. One must ask why S&W's stock is tanking in the first place? Recent events have been the catalyst for the highest rate of gun sales in history - yet Smith & Wesson is losing money.
I posit that it is because their outstanding reputation and the vast majority of their offerings is in steel guns. People think S&W, they think "revolver". Synonymous with "revolver" is "Old West". Smith and Wesson is running the risk of becoming irrelevant. The M&P is their Hail Mary pass.

When my daughter's generation (25 Y.O.) hears the word "gun" it is synonymous with "Glock". And they are the new buying public. It's the first thing they ask for in the LGS and when they set it down and pick up a steel gun the first reaction is: "It's heavy". An instant turnoff for the uninitiated person.

S&W will always have a niche' much like Harley Davidson. But I fear their heyday has come and gone. When our generations (55+) pass on, some venerable nameplates will ride off into the sunset with us.

Argue with me, please. I want to be proven wrong ...

 

[18DAI]

Sorry blujax01, but theres no arguing with your observations.

I would only add that the current younger - <40 - generation gun buyers evidently are very willing to settle for less in a handgun. Just check out the threads in the 1980 to present revolver section and M&P pistol subsection to see evidence of this.

I've shot the M&P in all its forms except for the 357sig models and those "pro" variants. Uniformly lousy triggers. Poor accuracy, largely due to the trigger IMO. I shot the M&P 40 in an agency T&E when it came out. Glock 22 beat it. I am not impressed with that overhyped ugly pistol with the droopy dust cover. Others are free to feel differently.

I'm fortunate to have a choice, with a few limitations, about what rides in my duty holster. Most agencies don't offer a choice. In fact, bean counters - not shooters - make the selection at the majority of agencies. Thats why you see the M&P being adopted in a few NC law enforcement agencies such as NCSHP and Guilford County Sheriff. S&W got the bean counters attention with the free pistols in exchange for your current inventory. No T&E done.

I've got about ten years left before I can pull the pin. On my last day here, there will be a metal framed 45 with a hammer in my holster. It will probably be melonite with S&W roll marks on it too! Regards 18DAI

 

[BaldEagle1313]

When my daughter's generation (25 Y.O.) hears the word "gun" it is synonymous with "Glock". And they are the new buying public.

So true. I was at my transfer dealer yesterday picking up a 4046 and a 27-2, and as I was finishing up a mid-twenties guy came in asking for a "gen-4 Glock with bzzz...bzzzz..." I tuned out the rest. But he came in wanting plastic, made in Austria.

Just for fun, check out the bottom of the main forum page where "today's birthdays" are over a weeks time and figure the percentage of over-40 here versus under-40. We here trend toward older. I'd bet the Glock forum (never been there, so this part is speculation) trends under-35 except for LEO's.

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

I got polymer in my upper bridge... I sure don't want it in any gun I'm gonna carry.

 

[Stingray 7]

If I ever have to part with any of my weapons, the 39-2 and 4566 will be the last to go.

 

[ldp4570]

Sorry blujax01, but theres no arguing with your observations.

I would only add that the current younger - <40 - generation gun buyers evidently are very willing to settle for less in a handgun. Just check out the threads in the 1980 to present revolver section and M&P pistol subsection to see evidence of this.

I've shot the M&P in all its forms except for the 357sig models and those "pro" variants. Uniformly lousy triggers. Poor accuracy, largely due to the trigger IMO. I shot the M&P 40 in an agency T&E when it came out. Glock 22 beat it. I am not impressed with that overhyped ugly pistol with the droopy dust cover. Others are free to feel differently.

I'm fortunate to have a choice, with a few limitations, about what rides in my duty holster. Most agencies don't offer a choice. In fact, bean counters - not shooters - make the selection at the majority of agencies. Thats why you see the M&P being adopted in a few NC law enforcement agencies such as NCSHP and Guilford County Sheriff. S&W got the bean counters attention with the free pistols in exchange for your current inventory. No T&E done.

I've got about ten years left before I can pull the pin. On my last day here, there will be a metal framed 45 with a hammer in my holster. It will probably be melonite with S&W roll marks on it too! Regards 18DAI

There's alot of truth in those words!!!!!

If I ever have to part with any of my weapons, the 39-2 and 4566 will be the last to go.

My son who is 13 is already being versed in the values of metal and wood. His pistol is a Beretta 92FS, an a MKII Ruger, an S&W model 10-8. His rifles are a M48 Mauser, an a Ruger 10/22 wood stock.

 

[yustinus1973]

Im in my mid twenties, and i have allways loved my metel framed pistols. I have polymer framed pistols, but i much prefer my steel and alloy pistols. But im not fulling my self, i know im in the minority for my age group, who it seems are obsessed with plastic wonders. But i try not to judge, i know polymer has its place, just as much as steel and alloy do. Its just that polymer does not have much of a place with me. I think steel and alloy will be around for some time there are plenty of manufacturers out there, even if S&W does not seem to want to be one of them any more, pity.

 

[Silversmok3]

Sorry blujax01, but theres no arguing with your observations.

I would only add that the current younger - <40 - generation gun buyers evidently are very willing to settle for less in a handgun. Just check out the threads in the 1980 to present revolver section and M&P pistol subsection to see evidence of this.

I've shot the M&P in all its forms except for the 357sig models and those "pro" variants. Uniformly lousy triggers. Poor accuracy, largely due to the trigger IMO. I shot the M&P 40 in an agency T&E when it came out. Glock 22 beat it. I am not impressed with that overhyped ugly pistol with the droopy dust cover. Others are free to feel differently.

I'm fortunate to have a choice, with a few limitations, about what rides in my duty holster. Most agencies don't offer a choice. In fact, bean counters - not shooters - make the selection at the majority of agencies. Thats why you see the M&P being adopted in a few NC law enforcement agencies such as NCSHP and Guilford County Sheriff. S&W got the bean counters attention with the free pistols in exchange for your current inventory. No T&E done.

I've got about ten years left before I can pull the pin. On my last day here, there will be a metal framed 45 with a hammer in my holster. It will probably be melonite with S&W roll marks on it too! Regards 18DAI

Well, im under 30 and lets just say when the time comes for you guys to roll into the sunset there will be at least one young gun still looking for honest steel.


Part of the reason I posed this question is because Im a new and young shooter, and all things being equal I should be on the plastic fantastic bandwagon.

I got off that ride the first time I handled a 4506.I went to the gun counter once and asked for accesories for a 4506, and the counter clerk just about passed out in surprise.

He didnt say it, but the look on his face was saying "youre too young to know about real steel".

That, combined with the paucity of new steel weapons in modern gun stores leaves me worried.

 

[BuckeyeChuck]

They can make a whoooooole bunch of poly frames before they can finish milling one steel or even alloy frame. And that makes for a fat bottom line.

Excellent point.

Lower costs make for lower prices for consumers. I've always thought lower prices were a pretty good thing, and I see no evidence that a polymer-framed pistol is *inherently* inferior to a steel-framed pistol from a quality perspective.

For all the curmudgeonly sentiment toward polymer-framed pistols on this forum, I wonder if the reactions would be similar if, say, scandium were the predominant material today instead of plastic.

 

[Silversmok3]

Excellent point.

Lower costs make for lower prices for consumers. I've always thought lower prices were a pretty good thing, and I see no evidence that a polymer-framed pistol is *inherently* inferior to a steel-framed pistol from a quality perspective.

For all the curmudgeonly sentiment toward polymer-framed pistols on this forum, I wonder if the reactions would be similar if, say, scandium were the predominant material today instead of plastic.

I would argue that steel frame weapons are not expensive either. In some places,including these parts in South Dakota a Glock 17 and a Beretta 92 are neck and neck for list prices new.Factoring in the lower cost to produce, and its clear Glock is making like a bandit profit wise.Springfield XDm's go for $600 new .

 

[Craig19]

I think most gun companies have figured out that plastic is cheap and easy to make. I personally prefer metal guns, but I do like the plastic ones I have, two Glocks, M&P, and SW990L. Lately I have been trying to buy metal guns. My thought process is that I have the rest of my life(I'm 34) to buy plastic, but that may not be the case for all metal guns.

 

[18DAI]

Last time I bothered to look, those M&P's were priced at + $500. No?

The melonite 4566 riding in my holster set me back $625 - shipped to NC. It was made in 2001 and was NIB.

S&W has been trying to stop making 3rd generation pistols since around 2005 - 2006. Interesting, as thats exactly the time period they started pushing the plastic junk. Coincidence? I think not.

Silversmok3 - Good for you kid! The 4506 is destined to be a legendary pistol, IMO. LAPD guys still swear by it. So do I! I qualified with one of my 4506-1's this past August. Shot a 99.6 day and 100 night score. I love those pistols. Enjoy yours! Regards 18DAI.

 

[VTHokiesDuckHunter]

My son is in college and owns a Walther PPS and just bought an FNP 9mm. Both pretty good choices in a polymer gun I think. However; now he wants to sell the PPS and get a 3913 or a 4013/4014. He loves my 4014.

Many of his friends are also psitol shooters and several started out on metal framed pistols and would never go plastic. Mostly SIGs, Beretta 92's, and 1911's.

I think we all wouldn't mind having an LC9 for those days in the canoe or marsh, but other than that, it's metal frames all the way for me. And evidently, for a lot of Beretta and SIG owners.

 

[Denver Dick]

A year or so ago I had some of my big boy steelies out for a photo session. I said out loud to myself, "Yep, you guys are a dying breed." Then suddenly, to my surprise , they all spoke together and said,

The reports of our death are greatly exaggerated.

 

[hemiram]

I'm in my middle 50's, and I've yet to buy any polymer pistol over a .22, and don't plan on buying one anytime soon. I don't hate them, I have friends with glocks, and other plastic guns and they are ok, but none of them really make me want to buy one. One of my younger friends (son of a friend, actually) recently "converted" after basically shooting nothing but Glock and XD, and realized that a heavier gun is nicer to shoot. He tried out my 5906 and my 4506, and it seemed to click, and now he's looking for a 4506 for himself. He doesn't know it yet, but if he doesn't find one, his dad is going to give him one of his for Xmas, as he's got 2 of them.