Bombs are very tricky to make. There is a very fine line between having them go off exactly as planned, not go off at all, or go off while they are being made.
My personal preference would be for the latter, but that doesn't always happen.
Two Explosin's At Boston Marthon
- Thread starter Damn Yankee
- Start date
Bombs are very tricky to make. There is a very fine line between having them go off exactly as planned, not go off at all, or go off while they are being made.
My personal preference would be for the latter, but that doesn't always happen.
As you repeat these unsubstantiated quotes from the early press reports, please remember if you do it in public, wave your arms and throw some kind of shiny confetti in the air, ala chicken little.
Lets get a little perspective first.
And cheaper ammo!
Chuck
Lets get a little perspective first.
And cheaper ammo!
Chuck
Was there a Bushmaster AR 15 in the vicinity?
Prayers sent to all the families involved in this tragedy.
Prayers sent to all the families involved in this tragedy.
I'll use this for the start of what is going to be a rather lengthy reply.
I have two prefaces to that reply. One is a bit of a scolding, the other is my bona fides so you know I'm not just "some guy" on the Internet, but actually have some experience with this.
The scolding. I'm very taken aback at some of the "Me, Me, Me" comments that I've read here. I expect them on some other forums, but one of the reasons I spent (too) much time here is that the level of maturity is much higher than other internet firearms forums. This attack isn't about gun control or anything else. It's about terrorism. Those are real people who are dead and injured. Let the craven politicians use this as a platform for their goals. We're better than that, when the time comes, we'll counter them. This attack is also about the people who had to respond, and are still responding. Think about them as well in preference to thinking about yourself and the impact on them.
Part two. Bona Fides. I worked for the City of Boston EMS system for 34 years. Since we do the 9-1-1 responses in the city the Marathon is "our" event. It's one of our biggest events of the year, but I'll get to that in a bit. I worked at probably 25 or more Marathons from back when it was a small event up until last year. Many of those years I worked in the main medical tent at the finish line. "Alpha Tent" is what we call it. Planning for that goes on from a few weeks after the previous Marathon up until the days just before it.
We've been training for terrorist attacks since 1997, before most other systems even thought of it. We do drills, classes, more drills, and the Marathon and other events are considered Mass Casualty Incidents, although they are planned events. They are in one respect training events, in another they are a slow motion disaster.
All of which is to say I know the medical response at the Marathon very well. I know the police response a bit less well, but I'm familiar enough with it to offer some observations.
About the police. It's a big day for the Boston Police since most of the spectators are congregated in the 2.8 miles of the route that is in Boston. Everyone works. All of the bomb guys are in, including the dogs. Not just the BPD either. MA State Police, Transit Police, outlying agencies with bomb squads or dogs, federal agencies, the National Guard. Think of a federal agency, they probably have people there. While they may be telling people that it's a drill, they take this very seriously. Still even with all those dogs, someone can carry in a device or devices and that seems to be what happened. Thousands of people lining the route, many of them with back packs or brief cases or something like that.
Now the medical part. This is one of the days that everyone that works for Boston EMS can work if they want. In addition to the 400 bed capacity Alpha Tent, there are other medical tents along the way from the Newton line inward. There are a lot of volunteers staffing some stations, but they are volunteers. They don't have to be there and I'm going to guess that some of them left the tent after the explosion. Not that I blame them, they don't train for this and it's not what they signed up to do.
The Boston EMS people are trained and are paid to be there not only for the runners, but just in case this sort of thing happens. We have all sorts of equipment for handling mass casualties, much of which probably got used to today.
We have a lot of extra ambulances because Marathon day is very, very busy. So, we need extra ambulances. Plus we have bikes, John Deere Gators, and other stuff I won't bore you with.
The Alpha Tent has enough equipment and staff that a lot of the less seriously injured where brought in there, triaged, and treated. Some of the where moved to hospitals, some were likely treated and released from the tent. In a normal year, most of the patients treated in the tent are discharged by a doctor and don't go to the hospital. Same principle.
This no doubt helped with the response as on another day, they would all have gone to hospitals.
Speaking of hospitals, Boston has five Level 1 trauma centers. Most cities don't have any. Some states don't have any. In addition there are a number of none trauma center hospitals that can treat patients that are less severely injured. As a result patients were moved to trauma centers and into Operating Rooms, if needed, in a matter of minutes and not hours.
Keep this in mind as well. Time does not stop when this type of thing happens. In addition to the race, there are the normal 9-1-1 calls coming in that need to be handled. The hospitals are still seeing patients with heart attacks, seizures, car accidents, headaches, and probably a few shootings and stabbings as well.
Finally (I think), pay no attention to the media. They have no idea what's going on. They can look at video and guess what someone is doing, but I can look at that same video and know what they are doing. Hell, I can tell you the names of some of the people that are on TV because I worked with them. The local TV stations are making stuff up and the national networks are just parroting that misinformation. It will be a few days before we know what really happened and who did it. Still, they have air time to fill and laundry detergent to sell, so they have to put something on the air.
Hopefully that gives you folks some insight into what was really happening before, during, and after the Marathon and the attack.
I'm thankful that at least as far as I can tell, none of my friends and former co workers are among the injured.
For the benefit of the moderators, none of what I wrote here is confidential. It might not be common knowledge, but there are a good number of people who could have written this post.
marvin the martian
Member
The White House now believes it was an act of terrorism. ""When multiple devices go off, that's an act of terrorism," a senior administration official said"
Gee, ya think so? So if just one devise goes off what does that make it? A Party Popper?
Gee, ya think so? So if just one devise goes off what does that make it? A Party Popper?
Moonman
Member
Boston news conference reporting 3 dead now.
This part here is king (your whole post was great, but this part especially). I quit watching the news media a few years ago because sometimes it feels like they just free associate about what is going on and pad the time, and then never can seem to spend time on hard facts later because they're on to the next big thing or crisis to try and garner ratings. And they're more interested in "controversial opinions" than "hard facts", honestly.
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Way Too Many Mentions of
"Domestic Terror Groups" Even if they do have a Saudi in custody they will find a way to say he was probably aided by a domestic terror group.
They will find a cache of guns & explosives & some dweeb that can barely count to ten as the "accomplice", say he was mad about more gun control.
We let 'em use our "melting pot" history & our "all inclusive" election system against us. They need to move faster. The rest of the globalist's are gettin' tired of waitin'. We are the last truly "armed" nation that can stop their plan of world domination.
Prayer's & luck to everyone, we're gonna need 'em.
Ned
"Domestic Terror Groups" Even if they do have a Saudi in custody they will find a way to say he was probably aided by a domestic terror group.
They will find a cache of guns & explosives & some dweeb that can barely count to ten as the "accomplice", say he was mad about more gun control.
We let 'em use our "melting pot" history & our "all inclusive" election system against us. They need to move faster. The rest of the globalist's are gettin' tired of waitin'. We are the last truly "armed" nation that can stop their plan of world domination.
Prayer's & luck to everyone, we're gonna need 'em.
Ned
COL Jagdog
Member
The government will ban running shoes and finish lines.
The pukes that committed this act ought to be drawn and quartered on Boston Commons.
labworm
US Veteran
Some of the questions by the media are enough to make you puke.
A tragedy took place today in Boston
Are some of those stores on Boylston St, still open?
Do you know if they will be open tomorrow?
The area is crawling with Boston Police, Firefighters, FBI, National Guard, Police from surrounding communities, Medical personnel. etc.
And if anyone is getting their info from the NY Post, I'll pray for you.
A tragedy took place today in Boston
Are some of those stores on Boylston St, still open?
Do you know if they will be open tomorrow?
The area is crawling with Boston Police, Firefighters, FBI, National Guard, Police from surrounding communities, Medical personnel. etc.
And if anyone is getting their info from the NY Post, I'll pray for you.
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How many Saudi Nationals are involved in 'domestic' terrorism?
It is very common for an IED to be small. They are by nature 'homemade'
It is typical for terrorist bombs in the middle east to be packed with shrapnel
Al Qaeda targets are always high visibility and high emotional impact
Multiple bombs were found, and I understand BPD shut down all cell phone service, anticipating remotely detonated subsequent explosions. AQ has been practicing this in the Middle East, thereby killing emergency responders, and slowing their response to subsequent attacks
I'm sticking with my theory. And no, North Korea didn't do it. Theirs would have been a nuke.
It is very common for an IED to be small. They are by nature 'homemade'
It is typical for terrorist bombs in the middle east to be packed with shrapnel
Al Qaeda targets are always high visibility and high emotional impact
Multiple bombs were found, and I understand BPD shut down all cell phone service, anticipating remotely detonated subsequent explosions. AQ has been practicing this in the Middle East, thereby killing emergency responders, and slowing their response to subsequent attacks
I'm sticking with my theory. And no, North Korea didn't do it. Theirs would have been a nuke.
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
When I was in the Navy we had a term known as "Scuttlebutt" it generally referred to a bunch of sailors gather around a water cooler or fountain passing on unconfirmed rumors and innuendos.
That's exactly what the press is doing at this point, plus fear mongering and sensationalizing the ongoing event!
Times like this demand a closed mouth and open eyes and ears. Second guessing what may happen or could happen will give you a migraine.
I'll let the conspiracy theorists and news media fan the flames. But if I had to fathom where this will go, look for new regulations on gunpowder and its sales to us.
Collateral damage and panic was the goal here, and like IEDs they did there job.
We're not out of the woods yet! Dale
That's exactly what the press is doing at this point, plus fear mongering and sensationalizing the ongoing event!
Times like this demand a closed mouth and open eyes and ears. Second guessing what may happen or could happen will give you a migraine.
I'll let the conspiracy theorists and news media fan the flames. But if I had to fathom where this will go, look for new regulations on gunpowder and its sales to us.
Collateral damage and panic was the goal here, and like IEDs they did there job.
We're not out of the woods yet! Dale
cmort666
Member
jaykellogg
Absent Comrade
The people of Boston always have been a tough resilient people. I am sure the first responders, police and everyone involved is going to work day and night to help the injured, prevent further trauma, secure the crime scene and solve this thing. Personally, I don't care if it was left wing, right wing, Islamic terror or some nut wanting publicity. I don't care if it was some cult or Christian fundamentalists. I hope they are caught and punished. There are many hearts breaking tonight, my prayers are first for the victims and second for all law enforcement to bring these perps to justice.
One brief note about the timing. Starting at 1400 and going until about 1600, the main "Pack" of the runners comes in. In fact in today, the "Elite Runners" medical/recuperation station had just closed because the elite runners are in about 2 1/2 hours or so after the 1000 start. It's the people who are just regular runners, not the professionals who are coming in now. It's also when EMS starts to get really hammered and the Alpha Tent and other medical stations start to fill up. Last year was probably the busiest year we ever had and we treated over 2,000 patients. The transport number was much smaller, but I forget what it is.
The other thing is that the families of the runners are all packed in like sardines from Kenmore Square all the way in to the finish line.
The race course is separated from the sidewalk in the area of the finish line by steel barriers that are tied to each other. They are designed to keep people from getting on to the race course, but also keep police and EMS from getting in to the spectator area. I'd guess that in the panic some people jumped the barrier, but most people probably flowed down the sidewalks in either direction. Some people were probably injured by being trampled.
I imagine that this will all change next year, but we won't know for sure until next year.
The other thing is that the families of the runners are all packed in like sardines from Kenmore Square all the way in to the finish line.
The race course is separated from the sidewalk in the area of the finish line by steel barriers that are tied to each other. They are designed to keep people from getting on to the race course, but also keep police and EMS from getting in to the spectator area. I'd guess that in the panic some people jumped the barrier, but most people probably flowed down the sidewalks in either direction. Some people were probably injured by being trampled.
I imagine that this will all change next year, but we won't know for sure until next year.
Fir3hawk
Member
Thank you.
Let's take a moment of silence for those that were effected by this tragedy. Gun control will always be an issue. Homemade bombs will always be illegal. But those that were effect today's lives will never be the same.
My thoughts and prayers go out the Boston community. To all of those who had a friend, family member, co-worker, etc. either running the marathon, spectating or otherwise.
Likely not, as the white smoke would likely indicate industrial chemicals. If i can find it in the morning i'll post a link to the article i read about that.
MaximumLawman
Member
This was inevitable. I'm surprised it took them this long to hit an iconic public event. I was expecting it to be something like the World Series, Superbowl or Rose Bowl or a strike at another iconic place like U of Michigan's stadium, largest in the US.
The posters who hint that this may be used as a prompt at more gun control may not be that far off. The initial assault weapons ban was attached to the legislative reaction to the first WTC bombing if I recall correctly.
The posters who hint that this may be used as a prompt at more gun control may not be that far off. The initial assault weapons ban was attached to the legislative reaction to the first WTC bombing if I recall correctly.
You're memory is faulty. The AWB and magazine ban were reactions to two events. The first was the 1989 Stockton School Yard shootings. The second was the 1994 Long Island Rail Road shootings.
While that might have been attached to some other bill, that was merely legislative sleight of hand, those two shootings were the direct causes of the laws that were eventually passed.
