Private Security Officer Asks For Your Permit How Do You Handle It

[bp231986]

You POLITLELY say " Sir if it means all the same to you lets waite for a LEO to get here and we will go from there. Thank you for your concern and providing security here, ill keep my hands visible to you at all times and waite for police to arrive". keep it simple and keep it safe.

 

[adwjc]

Rent a cop; "Sir , would you mind handing over your firearm?"

Dude; "No , but here , take her! She's always shooting her big mouth off!"

Wanted to "like" this twice! Sounds like my friend's ex.

 

[feralmerril]

Years ago I and a female acquaintance were invited to go to vegas with my best friend and his wife. It turned out this was a nice woman until she got one drink in her and then there was no stopping her. The majority of the trip went fine until it was time for us to leave. She hadnt had a drink but then started up behind my back just before we were to leave. My buddy had the car, we were close to 400 miles from home and we both had to get back to work. Now she didnt want to leave. We were at ceasers palace and she was grumbeling as we all walked to car. There was a older well dressed couple standing admiring the old fountain there. My now drunk companion ran towards the couple yelling she was going to push them in the pool! I caught her a few steps away from them and had to drag her to bills car!
Then she proceeded to call me every nasty thing she had ever heard!
I cant recall if I was armed or not as it was about 45 years ago and I was lucky no guard came running up, but its just another example of how these things can happen and I well know how that guy could get in a fix with his drunk friend or wife at the start of this thread. Done that been there and have a number of shirts to prove it.

 

[blujax01]

While it is easy to sit here and conjecture, my thoughts are that I would politely decline to answer his question, get in my car and leave. What if he tells the police and they run my plate? And come to my house later?

"Yes Officer I was armed at the time. Here is my permit. If you have any questions, I'll answer them."

What questions do you think he would ask? And why would be ask them? Hearsay from a guard who heard a drunk girl say I had a gun? A gun I never produced? So? Big deal, I have a gun.

 

[Smoke]

While it is easy to sit here and conjecture, my thoughts are that I would politely decline to answer his question, get in my car and leave. What if he tells the police and they run my plate? And come to my house later?

"Yes Officer I was armed at the time. Here is my permit. If you have any questions, I'll answer them."

What questions do you think he would ask? And why would be ask them? Hearsay from a guard who heard a drunk girl say I had a gun? A gun I never produced? So? Big deal, I have a gun.

Your response assumes honesty on the part of the guard. The more I’m around human beings the less I trust them and I’ve had people lie on me before.

If I drive away I leave the guard there to tell the police anything he wants to tell them. If I’m right there I can present my side of the story.

 

[blujax01]

Okay substitute McDonald's employee for security guard. Same response?

Let him lie. It changes nothing and I still have a chance to tell my side of whatever story if and when the real police knock on my door.

 

[Badquaker]

Staying on scene guarantees an interaction with the police, and a lose of my time.

Going home may lead to nothing happening, as there is a strong chance the police will blow off the gaurd simply to avoid the paperwork. If the police run the car plate, they will be able to verify a carry permit. That should end their inquiry with the gaurd.

The police showing up at my house gives the drunk friend a better chance of avoiding a public intoxication charge.

 

[feralmerril]

Besides being a defense contractor guard forever I also did three years with stints working at grand teton NP, yosemite NP and the wisconsin conservation dept. In at least 3 cases on those jobs I have been party to takeing guns. The law is now different in the national parks reguarding guns when I worked there over 50 years ago. I also worked with wardens on the conservation dept.
On one deal in yosemite years ago that I wrote of earlier, 1, the man wasnt even suppose to have a gun much less trying to shoot a coyote with it in the park and with the factor of a old woman standing between him and the coyote feeding it? Give me a break! We were driving a officaly marked truck, were goverment employees of the park, had we drove off and let him pop the coyote and many tourists see us drive off in said goverment truck and do nothing? You figure out how long it would take us to get drummed out!
With 40 years behind me of experiance on those jobs handeling some of those deals and hearing of tons more from co worker experiances I think I know what smooths out the situations like that.

 

[Smoke]

Besides being a defense contractor guard forever I also did three years with stints working at grand teton NP, yosemite NP and the wisconsin conservation dept. In at least 3 cases on those jobs I have been party to takeing guns. The law is now different in the national parks reguarding guns when I worked there over 50 years ago. I also worked with wardens on the conservation dept.
On one deal in yosemite years ago that I wrote of earlier, 1, the man wasnt even suppose to have a gun much less trying to shoot a coyote with it in the park and with the factor of a old woman standing between him and the coyote feeding it? Give me a break! We were driving a officaly marked truck, were goverment employees of the park, had we drove off and let him pop the coyote and many tourists see us drive off in said goverment truck and do nothing? You figure out how long it would take us to get drummed out!
With 40 years behind me of experiance on those jobs handeling some of those deals and hearing of tons more from co worker experiances I think I know what smooths out the situations like that.

If you aren't a duly sworn peace officer with jurisdiction where ever we happen to be you are not going to disarm me without a fight

 

[Smoke]

Okay substitute McDonald's employee for security guard. Same response?

Let him lie. It changes nothing and I still have a chance to tell my side of whatever story if and when the real police knock on my door.

Pretty much.

This is my opinion but my concern is that the lie (if any) may determine how the police respond when they do catch up with me. I’d much rather they show up at the garage see me standing there calmly check my permit, hand me the gun and go about their business than have the guard get pissed because I ignored him and tell them that I was beating the girl half to death and dragging her to my car swearing to kill her.

Maybe knowing this is how it ended colors my POV but according to the SIR the police arrived within 10 minutes, verified the gun owner’s permit returned his gun and sent him on his way. There was no mention of the female being arrested so I assume she went too.

 

[Badquaker]

There is a huge difference when actual laws are broken. No disrespect FM, but all your stories involve someone clearly breaking the law. The OPs scenario involves no obvious broken laws other than public intoxication, and not by the permit holder.

I have already given this thread too much of my time, so I will bow out and let it continue without me.

 

[Pasifikawv]

The authority, role, and power of Private Security Contractors vary greatly depending upon the State, Client, and Certifications held. They range anywhere from the pimple-face mall-rat with a walkie-talkie to highly-trained operators with extensive experience.

Many Private Security folks are armed officers who are protecting our federal, state, and local gov't institutions - including military installations. In fact, the Federal Gov't relies heavily on Private Security Contractors to protect nearly all federal installations.

In many jurisdictions, armed security officers DO have arrest authority; many are off-duty or retired LEO/Military, etc. Some Private Security gigs at gov't installations pay more than municipal and county police/sheriff's dept. Lots of Public Officers will transition to Private Security as the pay and benefits can be better than small jurisdictions can offer. Not every "private" officer is an untrained wanna-be working for minimum wage. In my area, numerous federal facilities (FEMA, FBI, IRS, CBP/ICE, Coast Guard) are staffed by armed Private Security Contractors who will affect an arrest and put you in cuffs in necessary.

In VA for example, all armed private security officers are trained, vetted, and credentialed by the VA Dept of Criminal Justice Services. They do have arrest authority - albeit limited to incidents on the client's (gov't/public or private client) property.

In regards to the incident above, I would need more information: What type of private security (armed or unarmed), what type of location (gov't, public institution, private business, etc), which state, what laws apply, etc?

The untrained dweebs with an iron-on badge at the bottom of the totem-pole who power trip on the public give the overall industry a bad name and (sometimes deserved) bad reputation. But do not assume that every Private Security Contractor is a powerless punk with no training, authority, or experience. Depending upon where you are, that kind of assumption could end in a VERY bad day.

 

[Smoke]

In regards to the incident above, I would need more information: What type of private security (armed or unarmed), what type of location (gov't, public institution, private business, etc), which state, what laws apply, etc?

What type of private security (armed or unarmed),

Unarmed

what type of location (gov't, public institution, private business, etc),

Privately owned/ City leased parking garage. essentialy a public building.

which state, what laws apply, etc?

Colorado Springs Colorado

 

[Pasifikawv]

I absolutely would NOT turn over my firearm to an unarmed security officer in a parking garage:

1. If his client and/or agency does not trust him to carry a duty weapon, why in the world should I trust him (or her) with my sidearm.
2. If he is unarmed, to what extent is he (or she) properly trained to handle a firearm, if at all? Lack of duty weapon indicates a possible of lack of proper firearms training.
3. In many states, an unarmed security officer is prohibited by code from possessing a firearm (unless properly credentialed as an "armed" officer and with permission from both the employing agency and the client). I would not hand over my sidearm to an unarmed S/O for fear of aiding/abetting a violation of State Code and costing the S/O his job.

 

[sac-gunslinger]

Actually, he was fond of Lugers.

Did you say Luthers?????

 

[HKB]

If it was me?

Who are you again?

No I don't have a gun.... and by the way can you take care of the lady? [Pawn her off on him and leave.]

End of story.

 

[blujax01]

Why are many people in this conversation so eager to give up their right to privacy and even their guns to some stranger based on what "might happen" if they ignore the request to "stick around because I called the police" and go on about their business?

Security guard, McDonald's employee, George Zimmerman, Trevon Martin, Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, whoever;

I don't care who you think you are.

I'm leaving.

 

[flintsghost]

Interesting that this is supposedly in Colorado where concealed permits are very common and "open carry" is also allowed in most/though not all jurisdictions, except the City and County of Denver. Businesses can post that carrying is not allowed on premises and some do. In that case one faces a trespass offense. Concealed weapons are supposed to be concealed. Concealed weapons are not allowed in some venues i.e. Public Sporting Events in Denver... Bronco's, Rockies, Avalanche etc. Occasionally when a weapon is seen, the person who has it is charged with public disturbance which is usually dismissed. Police in Colorado used to be able to find out about permits when running clearances as the subject of the query came back as a "person of interest" because of the permit. That no longer happens as it was not renewed as part of the CC law when the section it was in expired.

Because of liability to the business, the vast majority of private security people I see, even in banks, are unarmed. Very few businesses are willing to take on liability for people who may have very limited training concerning what they are doing. There isn't much justification for treating any of these people with no respect simply because of the job they are trying to do. Most that are also full time officers on the other side of this are limited in what they can do as their departments usually have regulations governing part time employment that requires the carrying of sidearms and performing under the color of authority from their full time job...in order to limit the departments liability.

No story, as this example is, ever gets worse in the retelling. I doubt a private security officer is going to ask to take charge of the firearm and in most cases would be wise to ask another question or two before calling for a police response. Assisting with the intoxicated woman might be a better response if such is needed and asked for. Being answered with a simple "yes I do" in response to the question concerning a permit should end the incident. Based on info supplied there simply isn't enough there to warrant a call to the police for any reason, as I read the information provided.

As to the woman, each must make his own decision about the wisdom of being with such a person. As Ron White says.... lots of things about a female can be fixed, altered, enhanced etc but "you can't fix stupid." Also in my person experience there isn't much that is good about a drunk at any time.

 

[arjay]

A number of cities/suburbs around Colorado no longer allow open carry,it's a real patchwork of laws.Best check before doing it.

 

[Smoke]

Colorado has state preemption. So other than Denver no city can just ban open carry in the city. They can, however, ban open carry on city owned property if they follow certain guidelines.

In Colorado Springs open carry is banned in city owned or leased buildings such as this parking garage. Each entrance must be clearly posted and all they ask you to do is leave or they have the police cite you for trespass.

A couple of people have implied that I am “embellishing” the story. As I stated in the OP I was not a witness to or part of this event. It is a secondhand account taken from the guard’s own report.

I’m sure there are things that were left out and I am sure that the guard wrote the report in such a way as to put himself in the best light.

I have attempted to be vague about the exact location and any thing else that might identify the company because I still work for this company and I don’t want them to read it and raise hell but I have not changed the basic fact of the incident as I under stand them.

The guard was removed from this site the next day because he violated company policy by disarming the carrier and he was later terminated for having an unauthorized weapon on another site.