CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

[cmort666]

This is why I carry a revolver.

Ken

The way some of the anti-chambered round people talk, they'd carry a revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber, even if it wasn't an SAA or clone.

 

[Engine 21]

Without intensive training and continuous practice, this is untrue.

First, you're missing the simple fact that the knife must still be deployed. Will you have time to draw the knife and open it? Maybe. If you do, will you cut yourself in the process? Most likely.

I think, based on your assertion that drawing a gun is not the best idea at that point, that empty hand skills are better suited to that situation. Even so, I still think the gun is a better tool if there is a round in the chamber.

I did not assert that drawing a firearm is the best or worst thing you can do. My point is - whatever you are going to try to employ, you are way to late. The key here is SA and if the attacker is that close and your radar isn't picking up the threat then you are already at a disadvantage. As far as cutting yourself - I agree, you better get the training and practice for an edged weapon. I would not rely on one weapon - handgun or edged - they are just tools, and the best tool you have is between your ears.

 

[Protected One]

OK, ProtectedOne may not have said it, but I will. Present from concealment and put two shots on target in 1.3 seconds? Hmmm, that would be impressive. What distance? 7 yards? 3 yards?

I time myself as much as I can. At 7 yards I can present from concealment and put two rounds within a hand span of each other, in the thoracic cavity, in under 2.3 seconds consistently. My goal is less than 2 seconds. The absolute fastest I've done it was just under 2 seconds at about 1.98 seconds. I haven't been able to do it again.

From the ready I can get two, on target in under 1 second consistently at 5 yards, but that's not from concealment. That's a whole different ball game.

I've also timed a bunch of other people doing this same drill. I have yet to see anyone do it consistently under 2 seconds.

So, yes, I'm calling you out. I want corroboration. I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm just saying I want to see it. Don't get me wrong, I believe you. Shooting a controlled pair on target in 1.3 seconds is very impressive shooting. But I still want to see it.

I'd LOVE to see a video of that myself.

 

[Protected One]

I did not assert that drawing a firearm is the best or worst thing you can do. My point is - whatever you are going to try to employ, you are way to late. The key here is SA and if the attacker is that close and your radar isn't picking up the threat then you are already at a disadvantage. As far as cutting yourself - I agree, you better get the training and practice for an edged weapon. I would not rely on one weapon - handgun or edged - they are just tools, and the best tool you have is between your ears.

Not necessarily too late. If some space can be created between the threat and the victim a handgun can still be brought into action, but it's best if a round is already chambered. The less things to deal with the better.

 

[jppezz23]

If you don't trust yourself with one in the chamber then you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

 

[dondavis3]

I always have one in the pipe

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Keeping one in the pipe without a manual safety engaged or extensive firearms training is akin to building a home on a shoddy foundation.

 

[cmort666]

Keeping one in the pipe without a manual safety engaged or extensive firearms training is akin to building a home on a shoddy foundation.

Does that mean that the only revolvers that should be carried are ones with a manual safety, like a Reichsrevolver?

 

[Protected One]

Does that mean that the only revolvers that should be carried are ones with a manual safety, like a Reichsrevolver?

YES!....and make sure it's connected to a lanyard as well.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

Does that mean that the only revolvers that should be carried are ones with a manual safety, like a Reichsrevolver?

No it doesn't, just single action semi's that have trigger pulls under 7#. I should have stated that.

 

[5wheelin']

Keeping one in the pipe without a manual safety engaged or extensive firearms training is akin to building a home on a shoddy foundation.

That's just... not true at all. The only "extensive" training you need are the 4 firearm safety rules. Which you should be following before handling a firearm to begin with. The only additional "training" is Don't be an idiot, keep your finger off the trigger, have a good holster, don't draw and reholster your weapon unnecessarily, and you'll be fine. That's it. If somebody can't carry with a round in the chamber without shooting themselves they shouldn't be carrying a firearm in the first place.

Note I'm not saying someone who chooses to carry with the chamber empty shouldn't carry at all, nor am I criticizing them for making that choice. I'm simply refuting the notion that you need special training to carry with a round in the chamber. That's just asinine.

 

[RalphMP9FS]

The only way to reduce a ND is through proper training, and a lot of it. Most people that carry do not have the proper training, so with that in mind, a manual operated safety or a heavier trigger pull will reduce the chance of a ND. It's asinine to disagree with that.

 

[5wheelin']

The only way to reduce a ND is through proper training, and a lot of it. Most people that carry do not have the proper training, so with that in mind, a manual operated safety or a heavier trigger pull will reduce the chance of a ND. It's asinine to disagree with that.

Everybody should practice with their firearms. Professional training is a nice thing to have if you can afford it. But you don't need a thousand dollar week long class to learn not to pull the trigger if you don't want the gun to go bang or to not allow clothing or foreign objects into the holster or trigger guard while holstering or unholstering. You just have to not be an idiot. Everybody should be practicing these principals if they carry a handgun period, regardless of if there is a manual safety or not. If you're safe and responsible, you're fine. Not being safe is not being safe: a safety isn't an idiot proof switch, and you don't need "advanced" training not to be an idiot.

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

Keeping one in the pipe without a manual safety engaged or extensive firearms training is akin to building a home on a shoddy foundation.

Looks like Jay Carney joined the discussion.
And, never fly in a small plane, hunt dangerous game, or drink cheap beer and eat jalepeno peppers at the same time.

 

[drolen]

If you don't trust yourself with one in the chamber then you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

How far can we take this?

-If you don't trust yourself to always hit the bad guy and never ever hit a bystander then you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

-If you don't have every specific CCW carry law memorized and understood as your state supreme court understands it then you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

-If you can't draw and put two in the torso in less than 3 seconds at 21 feet then you shouldn't be carrying a gun.

-If you........

You see? Where do these arbitrary and cliché standards come from? Oh wait, just answered my own question.. Cliché.

How about this. If you have not done an assessment of why you carry and you do not have an understanding of the risks and laws associated with CCW, and you are not willing to draw and fire when you make an assessment that doing so is the only way to prevent you or someone close from being a victim of harm then you should not be carrying a gun.

Your gun, your life, your CCW permit. Make your own decision.

 

[cmort666]

Your gun, your life, your CCW permit. Make your own decision.

But make that decision honestly.

Most of the excuses I see for not carrying with a round in the chamber indicate a greater fear of ones own firearm than of a violent assailant.

If that's how somebody feels, they should be honest about it.

Truth be told, if I was in such terror of my own defensive tool, I wouldn't carry it.

 

[Watchdog]

He's full of it, ignore him. He sounds like the type who should not have a gun

He sounds like the type who'd shoot his equipment off.

 

[drolen]

But make that decision honestly.

Most of the excuses I see for not carrying with a round in the chamber indicate a greater fear of ones own firearm than of a violent assailant.

If that's how somebody feels, they should be honest about it.

Truth be told, if I was in such terror of my own defensive tool, I wouldn't carry it.

I think maybe you take it a bit too far. Then again maybe we just disagree. Most of the reasons I see for C3 is to add a layer of safety beyond C1 and to me, that's being as honest as you can be.

I agree with most of the C1 side when I say that I don't see the need for that layer of safety but I don't think they are more afraid of their weapon either just because they want another layer of safety.

 

[PowerSurge]

I think maybe you take it a bit too far. Then again maybe we just disagree. Most of the reasons I see for C3 is to add a layer of safety beyond C1 and to me, that's being as honest as you can be.

I agree with most of the C1 side when I say that I don't see the need for that layer of safety but I don't think they are more afraid of their weapon either just because they want another layer of safety.

I'll be open and honest here...

I have several rimfire rifles and love to target benchrest shoot.

I have never had a centerfire gun until I bought my 9mm SD9VE. When I bought it, I was intimidated by it. After all, one mistake could equal death. But my feeling was better to be cautious than careless.

After I spent some time at the range, I gained confidence. Why? Because I learned my weapon. I know what it's going to do, and how to make it do it. I'm now confident with that 9mm. I would carry it with one in the chamber if I had it on me.

Tonight, I picked up my new carry gun. A Ruger LCP with laser. Once again, I'm intimidated at the thought of carrying this on me. Why? I know how to shoot now, and I shoot very well. I can handle my more powerful 9mm, so why am I intimidated again at this little 380?

Simple. I have not shot it yet. I don't know it yet. I don't know the feel for the trigger, or sensitive it is, or for that matter I don't know yet what it's like to carry it on me and draw it from someplace on my body.

Once I take it to the range, I'll learn it. Then I'll have no problem carrying it loaded on me. Because I'll know how it works and what makes it go off.

I think a LOT of people buy a carry gun, and never learn to shoot it properly, or enough times to be confident in it's function. And those are the dangerous people. Those are the people you hear with the accidental discharges. Someone who KNOWS his weapon isn't going to have that issue, IMO.

BTW, thank you to cmort666 for your post. It actually opened my own eyes to why I was feeling intimidated again, and made me realize I just need seat time with this new gun.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Keeping one in the pipe without a manual safety engaged or extensive firearms training is akin to building a home on a shoddy foundation.

If the firearm has a manual safety, right? Otherwise . . .