Would you let a nine year old shoot a Uzi?

[BigCityChief]

No way.


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[Muss Muggins]

I hear what you are saying for people who know something about guns. If you don't know anything about firearms, then how are you able to recognize that an full-auto UZI is unsafe under supervision of a trained instructor who is telling you its safe? Everybody on any gun forum knows what an UZI is, but not everyone in the real world does. They simply have NO IDEA what capability the gun has or what capability is required to safely fire one. That's why they are placing themselves in the care of a "so-called" trained instructor. For all WE know, the parents were never even TOLD that the gun would be in full-auto mode (if they even understand what that language means!)

What they ARE expecting is that the "professional staff" at the facility are experts and know what they are doing.

If you don't know something, you are unable to say whether it's safe or not. The person that should have said "NO" were the TRAINED people, which were the ones working there.

I think you have to remove yourself from all of the knowledge we have here and pretend that an expert is telling you something is safe and you don't know enough to disagree with them.

The reason it happened is because of a failure of the TRAINED staff to say "No". I guess we will have to respectfully disagree on this one.

IC

I respectfully disagree. There are many things that just seem dangerous, even if I don't know that much about them. You cannot remove yourself from all knowledge and listen to an "expert" who tells you it is completely safe. You must use your own judgment and experience as well. Have your picture taken with a tiger! Would you put your 9 year old in the frame next to a live tiger? Bungee jumping off bridges is advertised as safe. 9 year old? The parents absolutely bear some responsibility.

PS: I've never had a poop sandwich, but I know I don't want one . . .

 

[Papa32129]

No way,

I have young children ( 6 and 3 yr old).
I am struggling with this tragedy. I can't imagine what pain and confusion that little girl is going through.

I pray for her.

Papa



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[RedNeck Jim]

I'm curious what it entails to be considered an "instructor" at such a range? Are you licensed by some organization or group, or is it just a title? The only firearm instructors (official ones) that I have been around were in the Air Force and they were very highly trained professionals. They loved to yell at us new officers.

I don't shoot on a public range, as I live in the country and have my own range, but so much seems wrong with this shooting. It would be one thing for this to happen with some friends out shooting, but at a public range with folks that specialize in full auto? I have no issue with the parents letting their child shoot... I don't necessarily think I would ever allow that but this is a free country. However I would think the parents would expect the "instructor" and the range operator to control the situation better. Full auto with a full mag? Gun not tethered to stop the known muzzle rise? Why choose the Uzi with such a short barrel? If you want someone to enjoy/experience full auto, surely you have something safer than the Uzi.

I just don't see how professional gun folks would allow anything like this.

 

[yeti]

Sad. Totally avoidable tragedy. An adult with some sense apparently was not present.
I feel badly for the little girl and the instructors family.

 

[hangnoose]

TOTALY IDIOTIC IMO

To give ANYONE, man/ woman/ child, who has never fired a gun before more than 1 bullet at a time, until they prove themselves, regardless of the weapon. Often best for their 1st shot is NO BULLET, to see/ & show them if they flinch. I can see a huge lawsuit for the mental anguish a 9 y/o girl will surely go through.

 

[peterdeb]

Absolutely not. You start a 9 year old on a BB rifle. When they show full awareness and responsibility on that, then you can move them up to a single shot .22. After full responsibility on that, maybe a 10/22 and once they start showing more interest and responsibility then you can take it to a higher caliber.

Completely agree! At 9 years old, safety should be drilled into the head and only a BB gun allowed to be handled. Then move up to the 22 from there if the interest is still there.

I feel bad for the little girl that will carry that burden for life because adults made poor decisions.

 

[vytoland]

common sense is a commodity that is becoming increasingly scarce.......

 

[hangnoose]

PARENTS FAULT?

NOT IMO! Are they parents of the year, or the sharpest knives in the drawer, NO. They could have been non gun types that (poor judgement) trusted a business with a "PRO INSTUCTOR" that had the final say so/control of the shoot. Not a lawyer but a law suit on behalf of the deceased against the parents is absurd, against the business/instructor, I'm sure we will see. A tragedy indeed, & sympathy for all.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

NOT IMO! Are they parents of the year, or the sharpest knives in the drawer, NO. They could have been non gun types that (poor judgement) trusted a business with a "PRO INSTUCTOR" that had the final say so/control of the shoot. Not a lawyer but a law suit on behalf of the deceased against the parents is absurd, against the business/instructor, I'm sure we will see. A tragedy indeed, & sympathy for all.

I think so. The website has endless pages of positive reviews prior to this incident saying how great the gun shooting experience was. The notion that the parents should have necessarily known better simply because everyone should know better just doesn't work. The parents put their trust in a public operation with someone who should have known better.

The instructor paid for it with his life. The parents and child will pay for the rest of their lives with regret and aftermath of trauma.

 

[the ringo kid]

My Dad, started me out with BB guns, then I "graduated" to a BB/Pellet gun. A few years later--the .22. I eventually went up to the .50 cal Elephant gun (one of two Long Toms" we had. I fired that gun once--but only after seeing him do it-them an older brother and my Brother in Law. I "rested" myself with a tree or fence post (I forget which?) behind me. After I fired that one shot? I never cared to fire that rifle again (I was 15 at the time) because it kicked like a passel of Mules. Besides that, my right shoulder was sore for three weeks afterwards--and bruised. I handled the rifle correctly--just that the .50 cal"Mule"left its mark.) About a year later, my dad took me to a machine gun shoot in or near San Antonio. He asked what I wanted to fire? I said--the .50 cal. He paid whatever the cost was, and I was like a grinning ape--got behind the weapon, and fired like I was instructed--short bursts.My teeth felt like they were all jarred loose--but I didnt care--I loved it. If those elephant guns were still in our possession? I would feel perfectly comfortable firing one today.

 

[hangnoose]

MACHINE GUN SHOOTS

Our club has 1 app 3-4x a year. Many of the RO's hate them & refuse to participate for very similar experiences. Too many people, hard to control & keep an eye on everyone. Next one is sat 8/30, I'm sure some safety issues will be beefed up (I hope). I generally do not go. The cannon shoots are a hoot, from golf balls to bowling balls are fired at old cars.

 

[ZackW]

ABSOLUTELY NOT...this should've NEVER happened starting with the parents


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[rojodiablo]

Is that true of the Micro-Uzi? What is the cyclic rate on a Micro-Uzi? The reason I ask is that that is what was used in the case in MA a few years back, quoted above.

It's in the way you handle it and Given the lack of experience any young shooter has with a F/A firearm, its' simply not prudent to cut them loose on full auto until they have shown a proficiency of rapid fire in semi auto mode.
I watched guys- full grown men not handle the M4 very well, and they easily had the physical strength to deal with the rifle.
It's not rocket-surgery........ but the small FA units have a reaction recoil which makes for a need to handle them from the top down in many cases, and top down force combined with a properly fit sling can make them pretty easy to work with. I found the Mac10 to be unruly until slung and pushed against. After that, it was a reasonable machine. Never worked with the mini Uzi. The full size model was easy when you were prepared to deal with it. I would not even venture to try it single handed unless I was the only person for a half mile, just in case......

The instructor paid dearly for his lapse in judgment.

 

[rojodiablo]

I'm curious what it entails to be considered an "instructor" at such a range? Are you licensed by some organization or group, or is it just a title? The only firearm instructors (official ones) that I have been around were in the Air Force and they were very highly trained professionals. They loved to yell at us new officers.

Well, first you have to put down your beer........

 

[goldenlight]

Is that true of the Micro-Uzi? What is the cyclic rate on a Micro-Uzi? The reason I ask is that that is what was used in the case in MA a few years back, quoted above.

The Micro Uzi has a cyclic rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute. And, compared to the other Uzi's is fairly light.

I think this is the reason why the 'standard' magazine is 20 rounds. If you are good, that's 3 short bursts. I have no desire to shoot a sub gun that is so damn FAST.

Now, an MP-40 is something I know I could handle. And yes, I WOULD still use the shoulder stock.

 

[chud333]

These are the kind of people, "The so-called Instructor", "Parents",
who make us all to be seen as idiots and inbred hicks with no
ability or reason to have firearms.
Prayers to the little girl and family of the dead.
Thats all i got.

Chuck

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I have never touched an Uzi and never been to Israel, but my reading tells me that back in the day when issued Uzi's, the first thing that an Israeli soldier did was capture an AK-47 because it was hard to hit anything/control an Uzi. It depends on the child, but isn't 9 a little early for fully automatic weapons?

 

[hangnoose]

THE BUCK STOPS HERE!

With the "professional instructor/ range officer"! In this case it stopped permanently. I'm NO TRAINED PRO, but have enough sense when letting a young kid shoot a gun, for me to have hands on control of the weapon & let the child basically go through the motions of shouldering/ sight alignment, (my arms over theirs) and they only really squeeze the trigger. IMO the "PRO" was too far away to grab/maintain ANY kind of control over "HIS STUDENT", the person he was responsible to teach & maintain safety from start to finish. For crying out loud, there are height requirements on amusement park rides, but ANY age/size for shooting full auto weapons, if you have the $?

 

[italiansport]

With the "professional instructor/ range officer"! In this case it stopped permanently. I'm NO TRAINED PRO, but have enough sense when letting a young kid shoot a gun, for me to have hands on control of the weapon & let the child basically go through the motions of shouldering/ sight alignment, (my arms over theirs) and they only really squeeze the trigger. IMO the "PRO" was too far away to grab/maintain ANY kind of control over "HIS STUDENT", the person he was responsible to teach & maintain safety from start to finish. For crying out loud, there are height requirements on amusement park rides, but ANY age/size for shooting full auto weapons, if you have the $?

Aside from the fact that IMO 9 years old is too young to be shooting an UZI in full auto the instructor made a fundamental error.
I watched the video and he should have had his left hand poised to immediately grab the gun when it started to go out of control. If he had done so he would be alive today. That is the way I was trained. Additionally his right hand should have been on her left shoulder to prevent her from rocking back which happens with a lot of shooters particulary when shooting full auto.
Jim