IDEA: Distributor-Like Revolver Group Buy???

I'd guess that the company will NOT let a gun go out the door with a single-action cockable hammer and without a lock, no matter what you offer to pay 'em. I think that's just their corporate philosophy. (Remember the history - today, S&W is a gun lock company that bought a gun manufacturing company. WE may think of it as a gun company, like it used to be, but the reality is that it's a lock company that makes guns to put their locks in. THAT's the perspective that makes their corporate insistence on locks seem like "common sense.")

Anyway, as I recall from installing a PLUG in a 638 that came with a lock, producing a frame for an external hammer gun without a lock would require them NOT to cut the round hole for the lock itself, the slot next to the hammer where the "Loaded" flag moves, and the internal slot where the flag/lock actuating mechanism fits. I'm sure all of these are cut on CNC machinery. And while it's certainly possible to modify the computer code to keep the machines from making the cuts for a lock, I suspect that the reprogramming would be a nontrivial task, EVEN IF the company were willing to let an external hammer gun go out the door without a lock.

So I'd guess that, even if the company were willing to omit the locks, it would take a lot more than an order for 500 or 1000 guns to make it worth their while to do the reprogramming.

Cautionary note - this is from a retired tax lawyer, who has never seen even one line of actual CNC code, so take it for what it's worth. But are there any CNC programmers out there who can say for sure how much work it is likely to take to make those kinds of changes? Recognizing, of course, that without actual knowledge of the software and coding actually used by the S&W machines, it would just be a guess.
 
OP Here:
So who is fairly knowledgeable about S&W revolvers and would like to speak with my by phone this weekend to help me brainstorm the choices for the polls?

I will definitely need some help with this and I would like to post the polls early next week.

Please PM me with your phone number and I will give you a call. Thanks!
 
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Impossible dream

1. Agreement on bulk buy gun.

2. No lock option.

3. No canted / clocked / over-torqued barrel.

4. Old style thumb latch

But I will send my deposit to vote/argue/discuss. 41 mag need not apply -- I don't buy orphans. L-frame is good, N-frame is ok, K-frame interesting.
 
OP Here:
So who is fairly knowledgeable about S&W revolvers and would like to speak with my by phone this weekend to help me brainstorm the choices for the polls?

I will definitely need some help with this and I would like to post the polls early next week.

Please PM me with your phone number and I will give you a call. Thanks!

I am knowledgeable, but not an expert. If no one else steps up, I can help you out.
 
S&W will not make a no lock gun with forged parts. Put that in the bank. The first poll should be frame size, then caliber and barrel length with other options poll can follow. At some time afterwards, a deposit must be required to continue voting. The only way to get 500 people to agree to anything is to do it step by step and majority rules. S&W will want this to go through a major distributor who will be able to get us our best price and will have the available credit to get the manufacturing process underway. Deadlines will be necessary to continue in the process because every excuse in the book will surface as to why someone can't pay or will want to pay late. Selecting a gun with options that do not require any R&D will keep the costs down and the finished product in sight. Get crazy with features and expect to pay $$$
 
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Huh? I am aware of an agreement with the Clintons, if that is what you are talking about, but I seem to recall that agreement was canceled and is of no further force or effect.
"The agreement, which was negotiated with the help of the Clinton administration, settled litigation by 15 cities that had sought to collect damages from Smith & Wesson for gun violence. In addition, the administration and the attorney generals of New York State and Connecticut signed the deal, agreeing not to bring suits against the company. "
 
"The agreement, which was negotiated with the help of the Clinton administration, settled litigation by 15 cities that had sought to collect damages from Smith & Wesson for gun violence. In addition, the administration and the attorney generals of New York State and Connecticut signed the deal, agreeing not to bring suits against the company. "

I don't want to derail this thread, but the Clinton agreement is dead.

"But Smith & Wesson officials and a Bush administration official at HUD told the Wall Street Journal in 2001 that the Clinton deal was considered non-binding. "HUD is not enforcing it," the official told the Journal. "In fact, HUD is not doing anything with it."

If it were not dead, S&W could not offer any new firearm designed to accept high capacity magazines, including its M&P line of pistols and rifles, nor could it offer any firearm without an internal lock.

The internal locks are, at this point, a company policy, not a legal requirement by law or agreement. Period.
 
If is a model that's typically adjustable sights, I'd suggest fixed sights similar to the Night Guard setup. That way people could change out sights if they wanted. Im pretty sure I'm down for whatever wins in the polls since I shoot almost every caliber but I can see some members backing out if it's not their caliber of choice. I'm excited about it, but what I really want is a pre-2000 setup that is unlikely.
 
The very first questions you should ask involve what is possible. Work with TALO or Lipsey's to see if S&W could/would make something without an IL and/or MIM parts. Find out if the hammer-mounted firing pin is completely dead. I have a feeling I know the answers to these questions, but it will manage people's expectations, and a sizeable portion might lose interest upon knowing these answers.

The second thing you need to settle pretty quickly is rough order-of-magnitude cost. If you pick something Scandium with every bell and whistle on it, you're going to lose a good number of folks.

Keep in mind that there is a balance between finding what enough people want and finding something already made. Companies like TALO make their bones by making minor, popular tweaks to what's already out there. For example, the CCO configuration of the 1911 (4.25" slide on the Officer's grip frame) is something a significant number of people say they want but not enough buy them to keep Colt producing them. So, TALO orders up a batch of guns that can be made using existing parts, slaps some different grips on them, and they sit back and count their money.

What I'm saying is, as much as I want a 3" .45 ACP, I know that it's not going to be a big seller. I think you're better off (assuming you're limited to having an IL) tweaking something already in the lineup with features the masses are crying out for. An example would be a 3" Model 69 (L-frame .44 Mag). Many people here say they would buy it if only S&W would make it with a 3" bbl. Here's their chance.

Just my $.02...
 
It sounds like many people would be happy with something like a 19 k-comp or 66 f-comp
That or very close to it does seem to be a common theme in this thread, minus the porting -- havne't seen anyone want porting.
 
I think S&W may bend on the no IL. I know the produce the Shield with no safety, why not a revolver?
 
I think S&W may bend on the no IL. I know the produce the Shield with no safety, why not a revolver?

I have asked this question many times to company executives at SHOT and I have never gotten a satisfactory answer. They have affirmed that they COULD LEGALLY DO SO, but they just WILL NOT.
 
Count me in

I think its a great idea and I would buy one. Actually although it may seem hard to agree on specifics, if this can be pulled off once it could be done again. For those who don't get their exact gun the first time around. Maybe an L frame the first time. And if its successful an N frame next time around. The only feature I would really, really want to see is the elimination of the IL on our special ordered gun. And if we order 500+ units I would hope S&W would agree. Anyhow an excellent idea

PS
S&W mp340 is a revolver with no lock FWIW
 
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I think you should decide what gun you are going to bring to the table for S&W to make before getting your hopes up.
First thing you will need is a gun that at least 500 people on this forum would be willing to shell out the bucks for.
And seeing as there is X,N, L,K J frames and calibers from .22 to .50 !
Barrel lengths, grip shapes , sights ect,,ect,,.
Getting 500 out of 10,000 to agree on one gun seems like a pipe dream to me.
BUT!!!
I am very interested in what gun is chosen,, if one ever is.
And I would be willing to throw up to $1000 in for my dream gun.
But we are talking about a N frame with either 8 rounds of 357 or 6 rounds of 44, or 45 !
no lock.
Fixed sights
square grip with magna grips.
barrel lengths from 3" TO 6"
PRETTY MUCH a model 520 with number of rounds and barrel length options.
 
To answer the question asked about removing a few lines of code in a CNC program in order to leave out the lock: this is very feasible from a technical standpoint and shouldn't take more than a few minutes to accomplish by whomever normally programs toolpaths at S&W. This is one of the few custom details mentioned so far that would be cheap to accomplish if allowed.
 
You guys are doing a good job brain-storming, keep it up.
For a 5 round 3" L framed 44 mag. with fixed sights and no IL, I might just have to move to a free state!:D
 

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