The old arguments no longer work....

[rwsmith]

The "guns only increase the chance of you or your family being shot" argument is gone. I've never felt in more danger of being accosted or have my house broken into in my life. I realize that guns don't discriminate and it's possible for family member to be hurt, but that is far outweighed by the possibility of you and your family being harmed at the hand of others.

 

[Old cop]

A gun is just a tool and if gun owners follow basic safety rules no one gets hurt.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Place a loaded revolver in the center of your dining room table.......check it every day for a year.................

on average........... by next Thanksgiving you will find


4 dead and 7 wounded..............


hey..... I read it on the internet.........................


funny thing is......... you never saw the gun move!!!!!!

 

[murphydog]

This fallacy was first advanced in a "study" that purported to show that having a gun in the home was associated with a higher risk of homicide. The problems were - no data as to whether the gun in the home was used, or even if any gun was used; no correlation made to involved parties having a history of violence, drug use; etc., etc.

Kellermann-Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home

 

[rwsmith]

I'll tell you one thing.....

'Having' a gun and 'Living by the gun' are NOT even close to being the same thing. I don't like the idea of killing anything but I love to shoot my guns.

 

[gunnails]

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

[rwsmith]

Or......

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

...or eroded by lame arguments.

I should have been a founding father.

 

[SC_Mike]

RW, do you remember in Charleston a few years ago home invasions/break ins were at an all time high when Mayor Riley reminded the citizens that in SC shooting someone breaking into you home is legal under most circumstances? Break ins reduced by about 50%.

Sounds like determent to me.

 

[BC38]

You're right, with the Pro-2A crowd, those old arguments don't hold much weight - because they have been disproven.

Unfortunately with a large segment of the non-gun owning populace, the same old arguments still work - all too well. Simply because they continue to hear them blaring from the mass media as if they were gospel - even though statistics have shown them to be lies and distortions.

When is the last time you heard or saw anything in a major publication or other mass media that did something OTHER than try to disprove the fact that as gun ownership has been increasing the murder rate has decreased? You don't hear that.

No, what you hear is more guns = more accidental shootings and suicides by guns. Both of which are probably true. More guns in the hands of inexperienced gun owners probably has lead to a greater number of accidental shootings. BUT what they fail to mention is that the RATE of accidental shootings has been fairly constant. More guns and the same accident RATE = more accidents. That's just simple math.

But where they are really intellectually dishonest is that instead of promoting gun safety programs and classes (like the ones offered by the <gasp> evil NRA) - which is what they would do with any other product - they want to blame the guns and take them all away. It isn't that they are truly concerned with the gun related deaths and injuries - it is the anti-gun agenda they really care about.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

What does quoting the Second Amendment have to do with this discussion? It's barely relevant. The discussion is about whether having a gun in your home is a prelude to your being shot. Only the "hoplophobes" believe that story. Not counting military members or LEOs on the Forum I'll wager that not 1% of us have ever been in a gunfight, never mind having been shot or accidentally shooting someone, which probably drops below some amazingly small fraction, if not ZERO.

OTOH, I do believe the level of violence in America has risen -which has nothing to do with guns and A LOT to do with the loss of civility and respect amongst the populace - along with the terrorism threat and it IS now more likely than it used to be that you might need a gun to protect yourself. I do believe that.

 

[gunnails]

I quoted the 2nd cause it was the only thing I could think of besides my initial reaction that is we are safer now then 30 years ago, if you believe the alphabet agencies.

But I don't want to stop another good rant, i'm all for protecting our selves and doing so with guns is fine by me. And I do believe the increase in gun sales/ownership is what has lowered the violence.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The arguments I have seen are that you or a family member are more likely to be killed than to kill a bad guy in self defense.

They get this number from total "gun deaths". About 60% of "gun deaths" are suicides. Then you add accidental deaths and murders by family members on top of that. So for that part of the equation, they're right.

The problem of course is the misguided notion that a gun must kill someone to be used to defend yourself. As Kleck and others have researched, gus are used up to 2 million times a year in self defense where no one dies.

 

[cmort666]

The arguments I have seen are that you or a family member are more likely to be killed than to kill a bad guy in self defense.

Which is fundamentally flawed before you even get to definitions.

I always reply as follows:

"Are you saying that if nobody gets shot, AND KILLED you haven't defended yourself with a firearm?

How about if the assailant is wounded but survives?

How about if he sees the firearm and runs?

Do you similarly believe that you haven't defended yourself with the martial arts if nobody is choked, beaten, or kicked TO DEATH?

And what about chemical sprays? What do you recommend people carry, sarin? Mustard gas?"

As in most other cases, when anti-gun cultists are asked these sorts of questions, they're either struck dumb, or resort to irrelevant insults. At that point, I know I've prevailed... as do the bystanders.

 

[snuffy51]

No substance.

The anti-gun crowds are always lead by idiots that are just trying to make a living off something they know absolutely nothing about and will say anything to convince others that it is up the government to provide for everyone's protection. Too many people today are used to depending on something or someone else for assistance with living and refuse to be responsible for their own way of living, and will not accept the real world. I have always worked to have a pretty good life now, 64 and retired, and refuse to let anyone take any of it away from me. Will fight to protect this from anything. You can always call 911 and wait afterwards. If not able to call, you ain't gonna have no more problems anyhow. There are a lot of like minded real people down here that should always vote for their feelings. No vote, no voice. Scrolled back up thru and read most of the posts, good job! I can read a lot better and faster than I can type.

 

[snuffy51]

Just remembered to add.

For awhile, so called "driveway robberies" started creeping east from the river and due to our and other surrounding town's police forces and citizen's attitudes, they did stop. No one hurt bad but did result in some soiled pants.

 

[rwsmith]

I don't specifically.....

RW, do you remember in Charleston a few years ago home invasions/break ins were at an all time high when Mayor Riley reminded the citizens that in SC shooting someone breaking into you home is legal under most circumstances? Break ins reduced by about 50%.

Sounds like determent to me.

I don't specifically remember that but Joe's been a pretty cool mayor and this is his last hurrah. Sometimes he was a little too aggressive on annexation issues but aside from that he did a lot to get Charleston on the map. Kudos to Joe for saying that and I'm glad it had some effect.

You know, I felt over the last 20-30 years that the Charleston Police did a GREAT job of running crime out of town....and into the North Area.

 

[Ranger514]

Last night's CBS World News featured a segment commemorating the Sandy Hook Massacre with a report that over 500 children have died from separate gun inflicted wounds since that mass shooting. They showed pics of kids who died and the sad story surrounding the deaths of some. It was an obvious gun control editorial masked as "news." Too many in the public believe what they're advised by various news organizations without questioning sources or supposed "facts." That includes conservative news networks as well as liberal. Journalism and news reporting are agenda driven nowadays. Honesty and fairness are secondary considerations.

 

[sbuster]

Whwn the gun haters get what they really want and some black suited jack booted fed cop comes stomping up on a porch and announces "I am from the government and I'm here to take your guns." Will there be more violence or less violence? What do you thimk?

 

[Ranger514]

Whwn the gun haters get what they really want and some black suited jack booted fed cop comes stomping up on a porch and announces "I am from the government and I'm here to take your guns." Will there be more violence or less violence? What do you thimk?

Well, if that did happen, I think a lot of the states would resist. There aren't enough federal agents to do the job, and I seriously doubt the local Sheriff or Citizen Soldiers of the National Guard would assist in the destruction of the Second Amendment in disarming Americans. But then, what do I know? I clearly remember taking an oath to support the Constitution when I was sworn in as a federal officer. It meant something to me and my fellow officers, and from what I can tell from my conversations with the younger generation, it still does. No, I guess I don't know how all those "jack booted gov cops" are going to materialize out of nowhere.

 

[AlHunt]

The "old arguments" didn't work when they were new arguments. The 2nd amendment is an individual liberty, not revocable and not to be negotiated or voted away.