Victory data base

[Absalom]

I am waiting to pick up my Victory serial number V28328. The serial number is on the butt, the barrel, the cylinder, and the right stock. No flaming bomb on the butt. No marking on the left hand top strap. .38 Special four inch barrel. I will post pictures when I pick it up.

As long as you are sure that the finish is original and no markings have been buffed off, that might be a good candidate for a letter. With a relatively early, low V-prefix serial from summer 1942 and no military markings of any kind, pretty much anything is possible (including boring stuff, of course ).

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Nice specimen. And quite interesting.

As for the backstrap stamping, "Sk. Fürth" stands for "Stadtkreis Fürth". You've figured out that Fürth is the city, in Northern Bavaria. A Stadtkreis, no longer in existence today, back then was an administrative unit, sort of like an urban county. What the stuff behind that means, I cannot fathom; maybe a letter/Roman numeral code for a sub-unit of some sort.

HEGE Jagd & Sport is a sporting goods dealer which got started in Schwäbisch-Hall in 1959, dealing in military surplus weapons; nowadays they do mostly muzzleloaders and blades and are best-known as a big Uberti distributor in Northern Europe, now located in Messkirch.

I look forward to hearing about the letter. Despite no topstrap marking, I don't see this gun shipping to a defense contractor stateside, since the DSC guns were actually sold to their recipients; it's hard to see how such a gun would end up issued by the US occupation authorities to local police in Bavaria in 1945.

There is nothing in German law that requires importer marks; HEGE slapped their stamp on all surplus guns they sold back in the 60s. I guess the gun could have gone back to the US after occupation service and then be re-exported to Germany, but I would think it more likely that HEGE bought it out of some German police armory as surplus in the 60s, had it proofed at Ulm for public sale, and then it ended up at the rod and gun club where the AF employee purchased it.

Thank you.

I'm happy to know the SK's translation. I was stationed in West Germany and Germany in the 80s and 90s and traveled to Fürth several times but had not heard the term Stadtkreis.

Hege, the company of Herr Friedrich Hebsacker, moved several times during his lifetime and was eventually bought by Dr. Waldemar Gorzawski. The Hege company records were reportedly lost during the company handover to Dr. Gorzawski so there's likely no possibility of determining why or how the gun was sent to West Germany.

Perhaps Roy's letter will give me a clue of where to begin a search on this side of the pond.

Here are a few photos that show some seemingly extraneous markings on the right and left side of the grip. The S on the right side is the only one I'm familiar with. Here's also a full shot of the left side showing all the German marks.

Thanks again for sharing your insight.

Bob

 

[Model63]

Hi, I have a Victory to add. I got this gun 30 years ago while in the Air Force, paid $50 for it.
Serial number: V 363788
5 inch barrel
38 S&W CTG
5 screw and strain screw
wooden grips with serial number stamped on back.
Behind the yoke above the assembly number is the letter M
No other markings on gun, any info is appreciated.

 

[Absalom]

Hi, I have a Victory to add. I got this gun 30 years ago while in the Air Force, paid $50 for it.
Serial number: V 363788
5 inch barrel
38 S&W CTG
5 screw and strain screw
wooden grips with serial number stamped on back.
Behind the yoke above the assembly number is the letter M
No other markings on gun, any info is appreciated.

Hello.
You have a former British Service Revolver from 1943. The lanyard hole has been plugged, and the gun has been re-finished in blue. If there are no other markings visible, the US PROPERTY G.H.D. on the left topstrap was likely removed during the refinish, as a BSR with that serial has to have had that stamping. Have you checked whether the .38S&W chambers of the cylinder have been converted to .38 Special? Just insert a live .38 Special round. If it goes all the way in, it's converted. That happened to many of these.

 

[Model63]

Hello.
You have a former British Service Revolver from 1943. The lanyard hole has been plugged, and the gun has been re-finished in blue. If there are no other markings visible, the US PROPERTY G.H.D. on the left topstrap was likely removed during the refinish, as a BSR with that serial has to have had that stamping. Have you checked whether the .38S&W chambers of the cylinder have been converted to .38 Special? Just insert a live .38 Special round. If it goes all the way in, it's converted. That happened to many of these.

Thanks for the information, it has not been converted. I shoot it every once in awhile, enjoyable to shoot.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Two Bit Cowboy:

Is there a W marking on the butt of your V467553?

 

[Absalom]

.....

Hege, the company of Herr Friedrich Hebsacker, moved several times during his lifetime and was eventually bought by Dr. Waldemar Gorzawski. The Hege company records were reportedly lost during the company handover to Dr. Gorzawski so there's likely no possibility of determining why or how the gun was sent to West Germany.

........

One more thing you may already have figured out, but HEGE's stamp was obviously placed over the milled-out original US occupation stamp. I pasted your picture next to an original below. The placement and dimensions are identical, and US authorities in Bavaria did stamp the issued Victory revolvers and M1 carbines in English with "Bavaria Municipal Police" or "Bavaria Rural Police"; yours would have likely been the former.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Two Bit Cowboy:

Is there a W marking on the butt of your V467553?

No, it doesn't have that one. Just took a new shot of the butt to send along with my request to Roy...

 

[two-bit cowboy]

One more thing you may already have figured out, but HEGE's stamp was obviously placed over the milled-out original US occupation stamp. I pasted your picture next to an original below. The placement and dimensions are identical, and US authorities in Bavaria did stamp the issued Victory revolvers and M1 carbines in English with "Bavaria Municipal Police" or "Bavaria Rural Police"; yours would have likely been the former.

No, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for filling in another piece of the puzzle.

You always want what you can't have... I would have much preferred to have the Bavaria ... Police stamping to Herr Hebsacker's! Sure nice to know that's the likely sequence of stampings, though. Thanks.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Might have broken the back strap code

I shot a new picture of the back strap today. Perfect light for my goal. Between the photo and Barbara's persistence to crack codes (using a powerful, lighted magnifying glass) the mystery might be solved. In context Barbara's solution makes sense, but then again, it begs the question, Why? In a post-war scenario, who knows?

Fürth is in Bayern (Bavaria). The capital of Bayern is München (Munich). If you look at the stamp in the new photo and consider that the stamp may not have been done well (i.e., the tops of the letters didn't print), can you "see" Mün ?

Reaching, but it's a possibility.... Beats anything I came up with.

Bob

 

[Absalom]

......
Fürth is in Bayern (Bavaria). The capital of Bayern is München (Munich). If you look at the stamp in the new photo and consider that the stamp may not have been done well (i.e., the tops of the letters didn't print), can you "see" Mün ?
....

That's a possibility. Another one that just occurred to me reading your interpretation, and that is less of a reach, I think, would be "Mun" for municipal, which would go with the presumed milled-out side stamp.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Yes! Certainly more plausible. I had reservations about the abbreviation for the state's capitol being stamped there. Your thought makes far more sense. Thanks.

 

[1point9turbo]

Hi all. I own a few classic firearms but this is my first foray into revolvers. I opened up the can of worms... you all understand

I came across this at a local gun shop. I took a picture but it was already back in the case and I did not know exactly all the spots to look. Anyway, I thought this piece was interesting but after digging around I am finding some of the markings do not add up to what is generally posted about the Australian guns.

On the butt, the top says "Made in Australia". The middle has a V prefix serial number 2324X. Bottom says Liberty Arms xxxx (Corp?). Most I have found show Vega Sac and one other as an importer but little about Liberty anything. Couple other proof markings on the front there but it was back in the case and I couldn't get a good shot. Looks like a P.

On the side, it is interesting to me. I wanted to impulse and buy this gun but I don't know enough about them yet. From muzzle to back, the barrel is about 5" and says "38 S&W CTG". On the left strap is "United States Property" I want to say it said "US Government Property" but I can't remember and I don't see any reference to seeing that anywhere else. Probably just me going crazy.

Where it says Made in USA; look close, the USA is punched out with 3 good punches, one on each letter. Then right above, USA is stamped again as if someone made a mistake and then corrected it. Above that, there is A /|\ F. Usually, there seems to be D/|\D is stamped there. Under that, you have the Crown 30 L marking which seems pretty common. Then another arrow. What is missing is the rebuild stamp that is on every other post I have seen about the Australian guns (ex, FTR\MA55).

Under the Smith and Wesson logo is (very faintly in the picture) what I think is another "XXXX XX Australia". I have seen a single reference where someone said there is a stamp for "Rebored in Australia" for when the guns were bored for .38 Special but I can't tell if this is that marking or not.

Nothing special in the Yoke area, under the trigger guard is another /|\ arrow. Number on the butt, under barrel, and cylinder match. I did not see one on the ejector star (that I remember) and I did not take the grip off to look there.

Any help would be appreciated. The mystery is interesting and I may end up owning it anyway. I wanted a cool gun that was definitely one I could shoot but I am not too familiar with the 38 S&W cartridge. The gun is in good shape overall with the only pitting I saw being on the lanyard.

Thanks!

-Tom

 

[meastwood]

Victory in 22 Seriel Number

My neighbor's S&W Victory was converted (before he got it in England, late-60's) to 22. It's SN is V 769240, and is a good shooter. Any idea of its date of mfg or ship?

 

[Absalom]

My neighbor's S&W Victory was converted (before he got it in England, late-60's) to 22. It's SN is V 769240, and is a good shooter. Any idea of its date of mfg or ship?

That gun is from the end of 1944 or January 1945 and falls right at about the time when the new hammer block was introduced and an S added to the prefix. The change is generally said to have occurred at approximately V 769000, but the one you describe apparently does not have an S. There was a transition period and a delay until the guns with the new safety actually started shipping.

 

[625smith]

Pictures of V28328

Took delivery of my victory V28328. All numbers match. Here are some photos.

 

[Missouri Raider]

US Navy Victory Model

Hi, a friend of mine just picked a US Navy marked Victory model. My question is , did they make a US Navy marked, with a 2 inch barrel? His is a 2 inch barrel, seems to be right. I will get the serial number tomorrow and ask him if it is a matching gun. I know it is marked on the top left of the top strap. Is there any special things to know to be sure it is correct? Thanks

 

[DWalt]

Hi, a friend of mine just picked a US Navy marked Victory model. My question is , did they make a US Navy marked, with a 2 inch barrel? His is a 2 inch barrel, seems to be right. I will get the serial number tomorrow and ask him if it is a matching gun. I know it is marked on the top left of the top strap. Is there any special things to know to be sure it is correct? Thanks

Not that I know of, but I cannot say for sure. If all SNs match and the under-barrel lug support for the short extractor rod is there, it could be one. Pictures would be great. And a letter would certainly be in order.

 

[policerevolvercollector]

Update! Letter arrived!

For the database:

Here is the info re: V-473586:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...70995-victory-model-pawn-shop-rescue-dob.html

 

[Absalom]

For the database:

Here is the info re: V-473586:

Nice. And we weren't too far off with our Nov./Dec. 1943 guesstimate. U.S.M.C. gun seem to have a tendency to ship a bit later than one would expect from the serial; I had one I sold a few months ago which should have shipped in about Nov. 1942, but didn't until April 1943, to the U.S.M.C. at Reading, PA.

PS: If you're interested in what the Maritime Commission was up to during the time when it received your Victory, this pdf. makes interesting, if a bit dry, reading:

http://www.fmc.gov/assets/1/Page/REPORT_TO_CONGRESS_1944.pdf