Low Handgun Lethality Rates?

[Hand Cannon]

In service training

And absent a video, news article, or police report, I have found LEO inservice training anecdotes to be oftentimes the subject of a Snopes article . . .

Yeah...right.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Yeah...right.

Before the widespread news and history databases made instantly available by the internet, we were actually forced to believe that a coin in your keyslot defeated your car's alarm, or that Wal-Mart is the center of the sex trafficking universe, or that Neiman Marcus actually sold their cookie recipe for $250.

 

[Muss Muggins]

However you want to roll is fine with me.

But just so I understand you correctly, you're using Barney Fife and Mayberry RFD as source documentation?

Oookayyy....

I'll play along with that. Barney shot himself in the leg 4 times with a DA service revolver (I'll take your word on the number, you seem to be an ardent fan). Imagine how many times he'd have shot himself with a Glock with it's lighter and shorter trigger pull - unless of course Andy insisted Barney carry one with a 12 pound "Mayberry" trigger. (I like that better than "New York trigger" anyway.)

Let's then extend this to Barney conceal carrying a Glock without the benefit of a duty holster that allows him to reholster the Glock with less chance of an obstruction in the trigger guard. It would have been a weekly occurrence and they'd have called it "Fife leg" instead of "Glock Leg".

The Glock isn't a bad weapon, that's not the issue. The issue is that the operating system comes with some specific limitations that have to be recognized and respected. Safety with a Glock comes down to trigger discipline and protecting the trigger from any and all intruding objects as there is no additional safety net to mitigate any lapses that occur.

Concealed carrying a Glock poses some additional risks that have to be both honored and accommodated to avoid people shooting themselves in stressful situation. That requires both understanding and training, and those two have not always been present in the training people receive in handling a Glock.

A Glock is no more inherently dangerous than any other pistol without an exterior, user operated, manual safety. The viral video of the DEA officer shooting himself in the leg has convinced people otherwise.

PS: I love that show . . .

 

[Old cop]

Handgun Hunter posted that good shot placement, even under stress, should not be difficult at close range. He (or she) obviously has never been in a situation where he was forced to use deadly force to save his life. I can assure you that it is VERY difficult to do (I've had to do it) and blanket statements like that are way off the mark. Bad guys don't stand still like a target; they move, hide and shoot back. No one who has not "been there" can even begin to guess the kind of stress this produces when you're in a fight for your life.

 

[Hand Cannon]

I wasn't forced to believe anything

Before the widespread news and history databases made instantly available by the internet, we were actually forced to believe that a coin in your keyslot defeated your car's alarm, or that Wal-Mart is the center of the sex trafficking universe, or that Neiman Marcus actually sold their cookie recipe for $250.

YOU may have been "forced" to believe that poppycock...I wasn't. The examples of officers making unbelievable errors when the SHTF due to poor training WAS backed by at least a news account and often a police report. I still have them with me. But, I'm not going to do your research for you. You can file a FOIA request with the Texas Department of Safety and request ALL the training records they have from 1983 to 2000. Good luck.

 

[Muss Muggins]

YOU may have been "forced" to believe that poppycock...I wasn't. The examples of officers making unbelievable errors when the SHTF due to poor training WAS backed by at least a news account and often a police report. I still have them with me. But, I'm not going to do your research for you. You can file a FOIA request with the Texas Department of Safety and request ALL the training records they have from 1983 to 2000. Good luck.

Duly noted . . .

 

[BB57]

A Glock is no more inherently dangerous than any other pistol without an exterior, user operated, manual safety. The viral video of the DEA officer shooting himself in the leg has convinced people otherwise.

PS: I love that show . . .

The DEA officer in question was clearly an idiot (Modern day Barney Fife maybe?)

Unfortunately there are a plethora of other examples - everything from a local police chief shooting himself in the leg in a gun store, to a guy shooting himself in the butt getting into his car, to a significant number of officers with NDs occurring on duty.

Now...to be fair, with 65% of the LEO market in the US sewn up by Glock, the large number of pistols in service invariably means a large number of accidents and incidents, even if the pistol is as safe or safer than average.

But it still doesn't negate the need for proper training with the weapon, nor does it negate the advantages of using it with a well designed holster to reduce the risks that come with that particular operating system.

 

[Old cop]

I have come full circle on Glocks and now have an appreciation for how simple & easy to shoot they are. I carried a Gen II G23 as my issued weapon until I retired in '97 and now own a Gen III G17 w/a stainless steel guide rod.

 

[Arik]

Handgun Hunter posted that good shot placement, even under stress, should not be difficult at close range. He (or she) obviously has never been in a situation where he was forced to use deadly force to save his life. I can assure you that it is VERY difficult to do (I've had to do it) and blanket statements like that are way off the mark. Bad guys don't stand still like a target; they move, hide and shoot back. No one who has not "been there" can even begin to guess the kind of stress this produces when you're in a fight for your life.

Wasn't there a case a few years ago where a disgruntled man tried to kill his lawyer. Shot at him 5 or 6 times at hand length and missed?!?!?! Or did he just graze him once! Either way it was a complete failure and he's no serving life

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[Mister X]

Wasn't there a case a few years ago where a disgruntled man tried to kill his lawyer. Shot at him 5 or 6 times at hand length and missed?!?!?! Or did he just graze him once! Either way it was a complete failure and he's no serving life

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I'm not sure if this is the case you're referencing, but this is what came to mind. I guess the attorney here actually was hit several times. I can't find any info on the gun that was used.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU[/ame]

 

[Arik]

I'm not sure if this is the case you're referencing, but this is what came to mind. I guess the attorney here actually was hit several times. I can't find any info on the gun that was used.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU

That's the one! I couldn't remember if he was only grazed or completely unhurt. Either way there's a "can't miss" situation that did miss

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