Increasing Reloading Speed

[Wise_A]

If I was in CDS' position and was absolutely committed to using the powder check die (not a bad thing--not my particular choice, but whatever), I would consider a combination seat and crimp die:

(1) Deprime/resize/prime
(2) Expand/Charge
(3) Powder check
(4) Seat+Crimp

And then really, really make the effort to convert over to on-press priming. I agree, it was hard at first. I even spent a long time feeding small primers by hand. But with a little tweaking and the right technique, I don't drop primers anymore. At all.

 

[m657]

scanning the process of what SomeOneElse believes important safety considerations leaves little room to comment....

in my own reloading process similar concerns result in a related yet different choice of credible steps to take

the only way ~I~ have found to 'go faster' is to leave out behaviors that aren't really contributing to safety or production

therein lies the choices of 'different steps' to achieve the same goal

 

[fredj338]

scanning the process of what SomeOneElse believes important safety considerations leaves little room to comment....

in my own reloading process similar concerns result in a related yet different choice of credible steps to take

the only way ~I~ have found to 'go faster' is to leave out behaviors that aren't really contributing to safety or production

therein lies the choices of 'different steps' to achieve the same goal

You can only go so fast thru technique & efficiency. At some point you have to up your equip game to increase production. Good equip allows this w/o compromise in ammo quality. The idea that you cant make quality ammo on a progressive is about 30yrs old. It is as safe as anything can be when dealing with things that go bang. Again, respect the process but dont fear it.
Ss press, about 75rds / hr
Turret, about 150rds / hr
Progressve, about 400rds
Progressive with case feeder, about 700rds
Progressive with case & bullet feeder, right on 1000rds
YMMV, but those are reasonable rates over one full hour from scratch with all components staged & ready to go. No amount of fussing gets your turret to 400rds, but you can always slow the progressive down.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

For the money the Hornady Lock and Load AP has been such a kick *** press for me. Overall it's almost half the cost of a Dillon including supplemental hardware. Progressive is where life begins!!! I did single stage 9mm and it was such a huge waste of life.

 

[sasu]

Just ordered a Hornady L-n-L AP progressive with full quick change parts for four calibers. To compliment my Dillon RL550B. It will be interesting to compare them.

 

[cds43016]

If I was in CDS' position and was absolutely committed to using the powder check die (not a bad thing--not my particular choice, but whatever), I would consider a combination seat and crimp die:

(1) Deprime/resize/prime
(2) Expand/Charge
(3) Powder check
(4) Seat+Crimp

And then really, really make the effort to convert over to on-press priming. I agree, it was hard at first. I even spent a long time feeding small primers by hand. But with a little tweaking and the right technique, I don't drop primers anymore. At all.

This is the first approach I considered. I just hated to give up the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Did I just open another can of worms?

 

[Thomasino]

I have a RCBS Rockchucker Supreme single stage press & have been thinking about going to a Lee turret press , but I generally only load 50 to 100 rounds a week. I think I'm going to stick to my RCBS single stage because it works great for me. It helps that I am retired because I got all the time I need to load. I primarily load 38 Special/magnums, 44 sp/magnums, 45LC, 223s, and some others, all on my single stage press.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[cds43016]

You can only go so fast thru technique & efficiency. At some point you have to up your equip game to increase production. Good equip allows this w/o compromise in ammo quality. The idea that you cant make quality ammo on a progressive is about 30yrs old. It is as safe as anything can be when dealing with things that go bang. Again, respect the process but dont fear it.
Ss press, about 75rds / hr
Turret, about 150rds / hr
Progressve, about 400rds
Progressive with case feeder, about 700rds
Progressive with case & bullet feeder, right on 1000rds
YMMV, but those are reasonable rates over one full hour from scratch with all components staged & ready to go. No amount of fussing gets your turret to 400rds, but you can always slow the progressive down.

You're right Fredj338, technique can only get you so far.

It’s the same with the history of computer systems. Years ago, when there were mainframes (about the power now of your laptop or phone), technique was everything in programming. You had to be as efficient as possible to process all the data because of the limited power of the hardware and hardware was very expensive. But there was only so much you could do. The price was that the programs were hard to debug and very difficult to change. Now with the technological leaps that occurred over the years, the focus has been on maintainability and modulization so that changes in systems can be addressed easily and quickly. Complexity needs to be reduced as much as possible (back to the KISS Principle (Keep It Simple Stupid)). Simple steps even if more. Technique is still important but not so much now as then. The speed of the hardware out paces any inefficiency in programming technique or process. Hardware today is relatively cheap. Could the programs today be faster? Yes, but they just need to be ‘good enough’ to get the job done as long as they are easy to maintain. You can always throw more hardware at it. Total Cost of Ownership is most important, not absolute efficiency in most cases. Hardware is cheap, people aren’t.

In my case Total Cost of Ownership is safety, simplicity and reasonable speed. I am not saying that other approaches are not safe and simple. I respect other ideas and want to hear them. That's why I posted this inquiry.

Kind of looking at the same idea here. I will never need to load 600 rounds an hour. I just want to increase my speed to be ‘good enough’ and still feel comfortable. I know that if I change some of my processes I can pick up speed with my current hardware. That’s a given. However, even with that, there is a wall and a challenge to my current comfort zone (comfort zones change over time based on experience and improvements in technology, and yes - I have primed on a press for years). By possibility upgrading to the right hardware, even if the process remains the same, I think total time can be reduced. A progressive may do that even if only get half the efficiency of what the hardware is capable of and still accomplish my goals. And if I need to load 600 rounds an hour, I can improve the process. Having options is always good.

There have been many differences of opinion expressed here. We have different needs and experiences. That is very good. We all do, however, share a common love for shooting sports and can learn from each other. I thank everyone who has responded. I am listening and paying attention to what is said and value your expertise and experience even if we don’t always agree. That’s how we grow.

 

[Wise_A]

This is the first approach I considered. I just hated to give up the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Did I just open another can of worms?

Tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to be without my separate seating and crimping dies, either!

I dunno--it depends a lot on just how much time you have/want to devote to reloading per-week. At two hours a week, I think it'd be tight, even if you performed all steps on the turret. A progressive might be a better fit at that point.

 

[fredj338]

For the money the Hornady Lock and Load AP has been such a kick *** press for me. Overall it's almost half the cost of a Dillon including supplemental hardware. Progressive is where life begins!!! I did single stage 9mm and it was such a huge waste of life.

Everyone says this but if you price the lnl equally equipped w/ a 650, about $75 less, not half. The lnl is just the press. The 650 comes with conv & most of the case feeder stuff. The lnl is a decent progressive though, especially if you dont want the case feeder.

 

[Wee Hooker]

You are losing considerable speed by priming off press now. ANY progressive is going to prime on press. What's the difference? I'd suggest that before you drop big $ on a blue progressive w accessories you try priming on you LTC . Then make the leap if you don't get the speed you want.

Myself, I've been to progressive land and went back to my LCT's. I like the simplicity and control I get and the speed is good enough for my needs.

 

[m657]

"YMMV, but those are reasonable rates over one full hour from scratch with all components staged & ready to go. No amount of fussing gets your turret to 400rds, but you can always slow the progressive down."

quoted for truth

at times I have used my 650 as a single stage loader of the Holy Black. It worked fine and amplify the notion that the fundamental steps of reloading remain the same regardless.

I've been looking for a good informative video showing just how the new-mfg factories manage to remain relatively safe and high quality given the huge output.

Thanks one & all for a great discussion.

 

[fredj338]

You are losing considerable speed by priming off press now. ANY progressive is going to prime on press. What's the difference? I'd suggest that before you drop big $ on a blue progressive w accessories you try priming on you LTC . Then make the leap if you don't get the speed you want.

Myself, I've been to progressive land and went back to my LCT's. I like the simplicity and control I get and the speed is good enough for my needs.

Have you ever run the 550? IMO, IT truly is the answer for guys that like to do less work, want full control & can still double the output of any turret if needed. It doesn't get any simpler for a progressive. Like an inverted turret, but with a high speed advantage. Yes it cost more, but who cares, still cheaper than 3 cases of 9mm.

 

[sasu]

Have you ever run the 550? ... It doesn't get any simpler for a progressive..

I second that. The RL550B is a really nice progressive press. Changing calibers is a breeze, even when you change the primer size, too.

The caliber change and caliber quick change kits are relatively economical. The quick change kit has its own powder measure, the standard kit does not. You can also save a few dozen dollars by buying a standard caliber change kit plus a powder measure slide that you can then keep adjusted for that caliber - the slide is fast and easy to change on the powder measure.

I have also seen claims that because of the manually indexing plate the RL550B maintains better alignment and thus makes more accurate ammo than an auto index press. I have not thought about this myself so cannot say how true this claim is.

The price difference between RL550B and XL650 is not very big so there must be something special about the RL550B for it to survive so long.

 

[cds43016]

Have you ever run the 550? IMO, IT truly is the answer for guys that like to do less work, want full control & can still double the output of any turret if needed. It doesn't get any simpler for a progressive. Like an inverted turret, but with a high speed advantage. Yes it cost more, but who cares, still cheaper than 3 cases of 9mm.

I agree. A 550 would be the press I prefer. Best of all worlds and high quality. I just wish it had 5 stations. I need that powder check die and still have separate seating and crimping.

The loads I use in my 357 and 327 are light. More of a dusting than a charge. I would take 5 charges to overload my 357 case. I just can't see well enough inside even with a mirror and lights. It would be very hard for me to see and judge a double charge at just a glance.

When I loaded 45 ACP this wasn't a problem. The cases were short and wide and it was very easy to see inside and identify a problem. Not true, at least for me, with the 357 and 327. The cases are tall and narrow. The RCBS Powder Check die solves that problem for me and I'm very satisfied with it. However, it does narrow my options. If I was still shooting 45 ACP, none of this would be a problem and we probably would not be having this discussion.

Dillon needs to make a 550-5 station press. I would be their first customer.

 

[m657]

while "You can also save a few dozen dollars by buying a standard caliber change kit plus a powder measure slide that you can then keep adjusted for that caliber - the slide is fast and easy to change on the powder measure." does seem like a do-able solution.....there's always the confusion generated by changing little things....such as 'which powder' you use for that load....

 

[Wise_A]

You are losing considerable speed by priming off press now. ANY progressive is going to prime on press. What's the difference? I'd suggest that before you drop big $ on a blue progressive w accessories you try priming on you LTC . Then make the leap if you don't get the speed you want.

Myself, I've been to progressive land and went back to my LCT's. I like the simplicity and control I get and the speed is good enough for my needs.

The difference is he tried on-press Lee priming and couldn't get the hang of it. *shrugs* Probly needs a little adjusting, but if you can't get the hang of it, what good is it? A progressive with a different priming system would solve that problem, even if it's a costly option.

 

[Nick_H]

I have a whopping 500 or so out of my new LnL AP press (about 3 weeks now). After some primer feed issues (burrs) it runs like a charm. Haven't tried for a speed loading session and don't plan on it, but for the money and the time I'm saving loading .38's, I couldn't be happier. I did buy the Hornady powder cop die and it works well. It's a good visual check, just a lot going on at once when your'e used to single stage presses.

Talk about an over reaction thread.....

..........

As to this, seven years ago, I hit a deer at 65 mph on a motorcycle, as it leaped off a hill and over the left side of the highway, to land directly in front of me. I hit it's direct mass on a 800 pound bike, but it didn't blast through it. Instead the front wheel was pushed into the engine. I was thrown over the windshield, hit the asphalt on the left side of my head, and tumbled over & over for 150 feet. Time did seem to slow, as I was conscious, with no feeling of pain. My mind, said, when will I decelerate?

I did happen to wear a full face helmet that day, considering I often didn't on cross country rides. The helmet saved my head, the face guard flipped down to save my face, and somehow I didn't break my neck. The helmet did take out my collar bone, shoulder blade, and all left ribs were broke, as well as a non-functioning left lung.

But, I'm still here to prime on the 650! Just thought I'd throw this in for anyone wondering about helmets. P.S. Protective clothing helps too. I wasn't wearing any. Severe road rash, that took doctors hours to clean up.

Ouch, been there, done that, but at 105mph. Stupid youth. Helmet, yes, cheap helmet but I had one. Not so much on the protective clothing. Lots of broken bones and LOTS OF ROAD RASH. That really sucks. !!!!!!! I feel your pain. Yeah really, I still feel it 11 years later. Did I say ouch?

 

[fredj338]

My take on mechl powder check. Yes they work, but they can, like any piece of gear, break or fail. I like them for rifle, where i cant see the charge easily, like 223. I dont worry about it for pistol because i look inside & rarely use anything like TG or BE in larger cases. If i shot a lot of such powders, then a pc die would be important & you might want 5stns.
I only have two powder measures for my 550. One for pistol, one for rifle. If you change things a lot,then a unitek micrometer setup is helpful. The powder measure for each caliber is a waste of $$ to me, saves very little time, unless you always load the same loads which i dont.

 

[domyalex]

I use the Hornady L-N-L; I can do about 300/hour (including filling primer tubes), visually checking every single round for powder presence (in 9mm I also use a lockout die).
Priming on the LnL is actually one of its strong points, as they don't overflow (it only picks a primer if the previous one was inserted in the case). Mount it on a solid table and you'll have very, very few issues with primers.

I shoot around 1000-2000 rounds / month and the LnL fits me fine. If I were to be a high volume shooter, I'd probably change over to the 650 or 1050, but I don't need it and my LnL has paid itself about 3 years ago.

Btw, I strongly recommend getting te Hornady led strip, it's super awesome for visually inspecting the cases: Amazon.com : Hornady Lock N Load Light Strip : Hunting And Shooting Equipment : Sports & Outdoors