jhnttrpp
Member
These are not actually reloads are they. Aren't they fresh, new brass.
Blew up my Shield...(3rd Update: Resolved!)
- Thread starter Rottentofu
- Start date
Rastoff
US Veteran
I did read your whole response and I agree. The expense of a lawyer is unfortunately far beyond the price of the gun.
I don't know if it's the same incident that RobzGuns was talking about, but I do remember a similar situation. In that case, it came down to the ammo manufacturer saying it was the gun's fault and S&W saying it was the ammo's fault. If I recall correctly, S&W offered to replace his gun at dealer cost which they claimed was something like $300-$350. I do remember that he sent the gun to S&W and they woudln't send it back to him. I don't remember anyone cutting a check, but I haven't looked up the thread.
Lot's of guys were screaming for him to get a lawyer, but again, is it really worth it to get a lawyer to recover a $300-$400 gun?
I returned about 850 rounds of 9mm MAGTECH because the bullets were 8.90 or so instead of 9.0 mm. Distributor didn't resist, paid for shipping......the things shot all over the range...haha
Apparently, these are risks we take when buying cheap, imported and reloaded/reman ammo. I know my ammo experience taught me a thing or two.....
Peak Performance Ammo
"Loaded on guaranteed once fired brass"
Peak Performance Ammo
From the website home page:
"GREAT QUALITY
Our ammunition is manufactured with only the highest quality components. We guarantee you will love our products!
UNBEATABLE SERVICE
We offer a 100% manufacturers guarantee on every round we build. Call or Email anytime with questions or comments!"
Any manufacturer can experience a double charge, bullet setback, or some other anomoly. Even the best quality control can fail, but usually smaller manufacturers cannot afford the high cost of automated QC machinery, like that which precisely weighs each round at high speed.
So, the manufacturer's response to a potential bad round becomes very important, especially under their written guarantees. A written explanation that this can (and does) happen to any manufacturer and pleading for patience while resolving the cause of the issue would be my first step as a manufacturer--without admitting liability.
I am not an expert on reading exploded brass, so I'll leave the determination of how this occurred to other experts. If it is concluded against Peak, I believe under their guarantee they will step up and replace the gun. Other than reputation, it is a cheap avenue forward. This stuff happens. The resolution should be quick for customer satisfaction, otherwise potential goodwill is lost.
"Loaded on guaranteed once fired brass"
Peak Performance Ammo
From the website home page:
"GREAT QUALITY
Our ammunition is manufactured with only the highest quality components. We guarantee you will love our products!
UNBEATABLE SERVICE
We offer a 100% manufacturers guarantee on every round we build. Call or Email anytime with questions or comments!"
Any manufacturer can experience a double charge, bullet setback, or some other anomoly. Even the best quality control can fail, but usually smaller manufacturers cannot afford the high cost of automated QC machinery, like that which precisely weighs each round at high speed.
So, the manufacturer's response to a potential bad round becomes very important, especially under their written guarantees. A written explanation that this can (and does) happen to any manufacturer and pleading for patience while resolving the cause of the issue would be my first step as a manufacturer--without admitting liability.
I am not an expert on reading exploded brass, so I'll leave the determination of how this occurred to other experts. If it is concluded against Peak, I believe under their guarantee they will step up and replace the gun. Other than reputation, it is a cheap avenue forward. This stuff happens. The resolution should be quick for customer satisfaction, otherwise potential goodwill is lost.
I am a managing partner of peak performance ammo and I would like to express that I am very happy the customer made it out with minor injuries. I know that an experience like this will make shooting a little less enjoyable for a long time. It is my hopes that this experience will not deter you from practice.
I would like to clear one thing up. We never intended to place blame on S&W. And if we did, I apologize. I was not the guy who talked to you on the phone but I do know what was discussed regarding our response. Our intentions with his response over the phone was to portray that an OOB detonation is an option. I hope that everybody understands that we are seeking as much input with the information we have been given to try to make sure that our actions on resolving this are well thought out and just.
I truly hate this and it has kept me up at night thinking about it. We are a young manufacturer but we like to think that we have a great operation with great customer service. It kills me to see the harsh remarks regarding our company from people that know so little about it. I agree that there have been a lot of fly by night reman ammo companies that truly suck but please don't place us all under the same umbrella.
It is worth noting that the customers last order from us was a year ago before the election. This is an unfortunate and rare incident, but I believe it happens to every manufacturer. Firearm and ammo.
Side note: I just joined the forum for this response however, I do own a M&P 9mm with an APEX trigger and love it. I look forward to learning how to use this app and following this forum to learn from what appears to be a wealth of knowledge.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I would like to clear one thing up. We never intended to place blame on S&W. And if we did, I apologize. I was not the guy who talked to you on the phone but I do know what was discussed regarding our response. Our intentions with his response over the phone was to portray that an OOB detonation is an option. I hope that everybody understands that we are seeking as much input with the information we have been given to try to make sure that our actions on resolving this are well thought out and just.
I truly hate this and it has kept me up at night thinking about it. We are a young manufacturer but we like to think that we have a great operation with great customer service. It kills me to see the harsh remarks regarding our company from people that know so little about it. I agree that there have been a lot of fly by night reman ammo companies that truly suck but please don't place us all under the same umbrella.
It is worth noting that the customers last order from us was a year ago before the election. This is an unfortunate and rare incident, but I believe it happens to every manufacturer. Firearm and ammo.
Side note: I just joined the forum for this response however, I do own a M&P 9mm with an APEX trigger and love it. I look forward to learning how to use this app and following this forum to learn from what appears to be a wealth of knowledge.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Jim Watson
Member
It is really very simple.
All you have to do is to pay for the OP's gun. I suggest full retail, don't tell him to look for a discounter.
No amount of verbiage will salvage your reputation. Fast, fast, fast "customer service" might.
All you have to do is to pay for the OP's gun. I suggest full retail, don't tell him to look for a discounter.
No amount of verbiage will salvage your reputation. Fast, fast, fast "customer service" might.
mcap1655
Member
Thank you Rdnwds for your willingness to inject yourself into the conversation.
I have many questions but first a general question(s).
Remans are often advertised as once fired and often guaranteed to be once fired. How is the sourced brass 100% known to be once fired? Is there an industry standard or just a standard of practice or just words? Does your company have "once-fired" assurance protocol that differs from the industry?
I have many questions but first a general question(s).
Remans are often advertised as once fired and often guaranteed to be once fired. How is the sourced brass 100% known to be once fired? Is there an industry standard or just a standard of practice or just words? Does your company have "once-fired" assurance protocol that differs from the industry?
jhnttrpp
Member
I've had and interesting morning. I posted on the ammunition manufacturer's Face book page just asking what was happening with the response to the customer with the blown up gun. I just got a personal response on Messenger. His first comment was we have acknowledged that OOB is a potential option. Though he is not blaming S&W. He went on to say it is also worth noting that the customer purchased the ammo a year ago.
I responded that him blaming one year old ammo sounds like he will say anything. Devalues anything else he says. I asked him if his ammo had a shelf life. I was respectful and hope everyone else will be too.
I responded that him blaming one year old ammo sounds like he will say anything. Devalues anything else he says. I asked him if his ammo had a shelf life. I was respectful and hope everyone else will be too.
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As a consumer, I've looked around several reman sites, and the trade use of the term "once fired brass" seems to be 'previously fired, one or more times'--not that it was only fired one time, and one time only. The reman outfit, of course, has an unstated responsibility to assess the brass for suitability for reloading.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I never thought you were blaming S&W from what has been said here.
Out-of-battery is possible with any semi-auto gun. So, is case failure and so is over pressure. It could be a chamber that's just slightly out of spec and therefore, wasn't supporting the case as much. This could be a combination of things. It could be a slightly weakened case in combination with a slight set back (this is my guess). However, the only right answer at this point is, we don't know. In fact, we may never know.
Welcome to the forum. This is a great site with a bunch of great people. Yeah, it's still the internet and we've seen our quota of keyboard commandos. That's just life.
I'm very glad you came here to chat with us. It says a lot to me about your character.
OP
Rottentofu
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2016
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I have to give Peak Performance credit for coming here. I hope to resolve this incident quickly and fairly.
Wee Hooker
Member
At minimum, I would think they would want to buy back the remaining lot for inspection (and to help appease the customer.). That would speak volumes on several levels.
OP
Rottentofu
Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2016
- Messages
- 17
- Reaction score
- 62
Update: I spoke with Peak Performance again this morning and they agreed to reimburse me for the full cost of the pistol and buy back my remaining ammo. Despite what happened, I am very satisfied with how this company handles this incident. Accidents could happen to any company, big or small, it is how a company corrects a problem that truly shows its integrity.
Triggernosis
Member
Bingo! Way to go Peak Perf.! We hope you will continue to participate in this forum.
Erich
Member
Fantastic! 
Well, they deserve credit. I certainly wouldn't have agreed to reimburse anything without having had the chance to examine the firearm and ammo personally.
Kudos to Peak Performance Ammo.
StakeOut
US Veteran
I would think that each and every ammo manufacturer/remanufacturer would have a good amount of Liability Insurance that would cover these types of situations and any claims of damage and personal injury would be handled by the insurance company.
It's hard for small companies to self insure.
It's hard for small companies to self insure.
Jim Watson
Member
I am glad the ammo loader got the message and agreed to pay up.
I hope you can find a brand to trust.
I hope you can find a brand to trust.
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