Grandpa’s Model 3 Russian First Model

[Norcal_lover]

Thanks for screwdriver tip!

Yes, I'm hoping others are paying attention to this thread. Rather extraordinary advice from the Prod. One might say, historic. Pam

that would be "from the Pros." [ed.]

 

[Norcal_lover]

Hello friends,

The phrase "Ignorance is bliss" comes to mind. I was able to remove the "grip screw." Olive oil did the trick. I only removed the broken grip and left other in place. Is my next step to use the straight-edged razor technique?

Yup, pics included, you crazy guys.

Pam

A drop of penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench may help. The BIG unknown is whether or not the grip screw is rusted to the escutcheon in the ivory. The key to success is patience, patience and more patience. Let the oil soak for a while (like three days) before trying to remove the screw. It is very important to not get any oil between the escutcheon and the ivory as that sliver of ivory is the only thing that keeps the escutcheon from spinning (and not coming loose from the screw). Wipe off any residual oil before trying to remove the grip screw just incase it wants to drip or run on the ivory. When you try to loosen the screw; watch the escutcheon and if it moves, STOP! We'll have to go to plan B.

Two things come to mind: In your photo of the broken grip and frame; it looks as if the locating pin (center of the bottom of the frame) has been removed at some point in the past. There is a hole there but I don't see a pin. Most often this pin will chip/break the bottom of the grip from improper removal such as prying from the top of the grip.

Secondly, from my experience with ivory (Elephant, Walrus and Mastodon); your grips look as if they checked from age (they dry out) and, through use, collect debris like skin oil in the checking. The debris works like a wedge and, at some point, causes the ivory to fracture along the grain like a piece of wood. A small bump might be all it needs to splinter. Your photo of the fractured edge shows the browning of the checked area that led to the fracture and the clean yellow-white of the fractured surface. I believe these ivory grips can be repaired (depending on the condition of the missing piece).

Lastly; NICE WORK!

 

[Norcal_lover]

I think I've double-posted, so this would make a triple-post but still trying to send dang photos. Thank you for your patience. Sigh.

Pam

 

[mmaher94087]

YES!!!! The stock came loose. Pop the Champaign cork(s).

The protruding locating pin at the bottom center of the butt holding the other grip panel is now your big concern. Gentle finger pressure on the remaining ivory, from the inside, just above that pin will release the remaining grip panel. Or, if it is ornery, while holding the revolver in one hand with the stock panel facing down over a soft towel, a gentle tap on the exposed pin with a tack hammer or the butt of your screwdriver will probably pop the panel off. With the stocks removed, you can now clean the revolver without worrying about damaging the stocks.

 

[glowe]

My experience says please DO NOT push the stock from the back without holding the top of the stock to prevent it from coming loose at the top and twisting on the pin. Please don't "tap" on the stock since it may come apart. Gentle coaxing will do the trick. The single edge razor blade is only .009" thick and will easily slip between the stock and frame once it is done all the way the stock will be totally free from the frame. Add blades at the base to gently move the stock off the pin and don't forget to breath.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Is my next step to loosen/remove the screw at the bottom of the grip?

And then to very gently work on getting the ivory grip to release from the frame by using razor blades and extraordinary care as to not torque any part of ivory?

 

[glowe]

If you are referring to the large screw on the very bottom of the butt-frame, you do not need to remove it. That is a filler for the threaded hole where the lanyard would have been installed on a military Russian. The screw in the front lower section of the butt-frame is the tension screw for the mainspring and that also should remain in place while removing the screw.

Go to post #12. The option to try first is remove the stock by pushing it out as Mike explained. Holding the gun with the open side up, secure the top of the opposite stock with one hand from coming out of the frame while pushing at the base of the stock with your finger. If it comes off that way, great, if not go to #12.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Success! Thank you Gary and Mike! I removed both ivory stocks without damage. Oh my gosh! ... ... This is sort of like those people in the Artic who have to perform surgery with instructions coming over the phone....

I would ask about the need to remove the cylinder to clean but my nerves need a rest. I'll work on cleaning that which I can reach and wait for the magical product Blue Something to come in mail. (I really hope that Grandpa Osmer approves of all this!)

As always, your comments/instructions are invaluable.

Pam

 

[mmaher94087]

I think our Specialty is Mail-Order Brain Surgery; made simple. Got a hacksaw? Or was that proctology? I forget. Take a rest; you have done wonderfully. I predicted that you'd be the conservator of Grandpa Osmer's revolver.

If you wish to refurbish Osmer's revolver to a totally working 140 year old workhorse; you will need to replace the hammer as it has been abused (as model3sw stated). From your posts; I believe your trigger return spring is missing or broken. Additionally, I cannot see the end of the Hand (the lever that sticks out to revolve the cylinder) and can only suspect that it might be abused as well. These two go hand-in-hand with the trigger and fail together from abuse. I will venture the opinion that the trigger is correct and unmolested. I can only offer the known sources for these parts and say: Good Luck. Where do you wish to go from here?

 

[raljr1]

If Mrs ever leaves me, I'm looking this lady up. Damned impressed!

 

[Norcal_lover]

If Mrs ever leaves me, I'm looking this lady up. Damned impressed!

Chuckling and thinking, "gun nuts are easy!"

 

[Norcal_lover]

Next steps? a) Someone offered to send me schematic so I'll try to find that post. Sure could use that now. b) Now that they are out, can someone (hi, mike?) tell me how to clean ivory stocks? c) I think now I can handle removing the cylinder so will look for that post. d) This gun spent the better part of 40 years sitting in hot attic. I want to stop rust, clean/treat as best I can. e) I was/am hoping to get gun minimally function, i.e. pulling back hammer cocks the gun.(a girl can hope) f) Review/Write everyone on this listserve for product tips to best bring this girl back to full health. g) Not replace main spring or hammer. She needs to be heavily original. h) If I'm able to sufficiently clean, put her back together, find a nice display case for gun and letter and find suitable place to keep in my home.
probably forgetting important steps. What would they be? I can take/sendvto gunsmith but nervous to lose possession. Thoughts??

 

[opoefc]

Pam, It was me that offered to send you a schematic, etc. PM me with your USPS Mail address, and it's on the way. Ed.

 

[mmaher94087]

HI, b) here. You don't want to disturb the patina that has formed on the ivory through years of use. That quickly destroys the collector value and interest. At the most, I'd wipe them with a little alcohol on a soft rag AFTER any repair(s). When (if) you get the broken piece, then I'd clean the adjoining broken edges with alcohol and glue them together with Stupid Glue (Cyanoacrylate). I would not clean the grip surface until the broken pieces were bonded as any spill of Stupid Glue will bond instantly to the surface and make removal that much more difficult when clean. IF a spill happens, then it will need to be removed (a razor blade comes to mind). The resultant scrape (if irritatingly noticeable) can be minimized with brewed Tea.

After all repairs, I'd wipe the surface with denatured, store bought, alcohol and lightly apply Baby oil to the outside surface; leaving the inside uncoated.

In the FWIW category, ivory in museums often have a small vial of water in the case with the ivory. They usually do not put baby oil on their ivory sculptures but they do put water in the case to raise the humidity to keep their prizes from cracking.

 

[new2S&W]

Pam,
You might be interested in picking up a copy of David Chicoine's book "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly..." available from Amazon for a little over $30.
Many of his other books also diagram components of models including model 3 Americans.

Gary
US American serial number 1030 owner.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Thank you both. I just ordered a book by Charles Pate. I think the title was Model 3 American Model? I will also obtain your recommended book, Gary, because;

I also have received: a Winchester rifle Model 189x? My serial number = year 1913; a darling little 5 shot number w pearl grips - I believe a 44; and, 2 British bulldog copies. So, shame on me for starting/learning on the Model 3, Queen of the Castle.

Re the ivory, I'm only thinking of cleaning back side (ahem). I'll follow your cautious approach.

Has anyone ever used (on ivory:"): "Renaissance Groom/Stick Archival Natural Rubber Knead Cleaner Molecular Trap 100 Grams". Reviews? Too obscure?

Happy Easter,
Pam

 

[Norcal_lover]

Looks perfect for me. Thanks for the tip!

Pam,
You might be interested in picking up a copy of David Chicoine's book "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly..." available from Amazon for a little over $30.
Many of his other books also diagram components of models including model 3 Americans.

Gary
US American serial number 1030 owner.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Dear b),

Oh... clean After repairs.... scuffling off.... (Thanks for vial of water in display case. Was wondering how to keep humidity up.)

QUOTE=mmaher94087;139984085]HI, b) here. You don't want to disturb the patina that has formed on the ivory through years of use. That quickly destroys the collector value and interest. At the most, I'd wipe them with a little alcohol on a soft rag AFTER any repair(s). When (if) you get the broken piece, then I'd clean the adjoining broken edges with alcohol and glue them together with Stupid Glue (Cyanoacrylate). I would not clean the grip surface until the broken pieces were bonded as any spill of Stupid Glue will bond instantly to the surface and make removal that much more difficult when clean. IF a spill happens, then it will need to be removed (a razor blade comes to mind). The resultant scrape (if irritatingly noticeable) can be minimized with brewed Tea.

After .[/QUOTE]

 

[mmaher94087]

The rub is that water in the case (or shadow box) is detrimental to the metal of the revolver. I believe the natural humidity of Nor Cal will keep the ivories humidified without any additional help. A light coat of oil or Renaissance Wax on the revolver will keep it preserved while the ivory will be happy with the ambient humidity in the house. This is from an ex-mid-peninsula transplant.

 

[Norcal_lover]

Yoo-hoo! Gentlemanly gun guy Guy!

I guess my next step is to remove cylinder, if it cooperates. Referencing the "cylinder catch screw," is the screw on side of gun (pic #1) or on top (pic 2)? Thanks! Pam

Pam,
Thanks
I recommend removing the cylinder from the center pin before cleaning. That way you can work on the bore from the rear of the barrel and not accidentally damage the muzzle. There is a cylinder catch screw on the top strap just in front of the barrel catch. That should be loosened to lift the cylinder catch up so the cylinder can be unscrewed and pulled backward off the center pin. You can see the cylinder catch which is an L shaped plate under the latch that is screwed down until its lip drops behind the cylinder and forms a stop to prevent if from being pulled off the center pin. As you loosen the screw, the catch will lift up and allow the cylinder to move rearward. Just grasp the cylinder and pull it rearward then unscrew it from the center pin...turn left to loosen, right to tighten it when you put it back.

Blue Wonde.