Criticize me; Walmart shoplifting confrontation

[kbm6893]

I think people who think too much about carrying a weapon and feel the need to point out what they carry and where it is are romanticizing the idea of using it.

I slip a gun in my waistband. Depends on my time of year and what I’m wearing. I go about my day. I don’t stare at people who “May be up to no good”. Especially in Walmart, where most of the people seem to be up to no good. I walk past an argument like it’s not even happening.

And IF, God forbid IF, somebody threatens me or anyone I love, I hop I will do the right thing and stop it.

Other than that, a guy screaming at his girlfriend, some sketchy dudes casing a joint, or a guy wearing a long coat in a hot day, gets MAYBE a phone call to 911 from a safe distance.

 

[Muss Muggins]

This says it as well as I have ever said it . . .

I think people who think too much about carrying a weapon and feel the need to point out what they carry and where it is are romanticizing the idea of using it.

 

[Well Armed]

Some of us take the shopping cart so we can leave the cane in the car.

Hear! Hear! Lol

 

[Well Armed]

I remember a video not long ago of a CCW holder confronting a shoplifter in the parking lot by brandishing his weapon towards a car load of people, and then firing shots as the shoplifters drove off. And I thought to myself Hmmmmm....what shoplifted item is worth 10 years in jail for an accidental manslaughter or negligent homicide. Can’t think of one...

Yup, I remember that. It was a woman and she was charged... If we're thinking about the same story... This was a topic of a thread years back on another gun forum... Some learn the lesson the hard way... Even still, I can't begin to tell you how many full of themselves gun owners over at AKFiles and AR15.com feel otherwise. The consensus there is that it's your duty to get involved, and you're a coward if you don't take these criminal's lives when the opportunity presents itself...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...er-help-anybody-again/?utm_term=.f5f5c26f6efe

 

[rwsmith]

A loud confrontation......

Almost anybody would be looking at a loud confrontation. It's probably better that you did watch, in case something went down and you had to duck for cover or something.

I doubt that anybody paid attention to you when that was going on. You didn't do anything to give away that you were armed, which is good.

 

[Shield 9 WV]

Been carrying almost 40 years. Have witnessed all kinds of **** that was none of my business,

folks slapping the **** out of their kids and such.

Attended to what I was doing, pretended not to be watchin', headed for the house. Joe

I once saw a woman slap her child in the face with her open hand. I walked up to her and said "if I see you do that again I'm reporting you to Child Protective Services." She said "mind your own business."

I said, "mam, I work for CPS and if I see you do that again I'm calling the cops and we'll have those kids removed from your home due to child abuse. We'll let a judge decide if you are fit to raise those kids."

She stopped hitting her child and walked off.

And please understand, I'm not criticizing your choice as a private citizen to not intervene. As a CPS worker I have a higher standard of "duty to report," by law, to report not just abuse and neglect, but even suspicion of abuse and neglect.

It's not that different from the off-duty officer who has a duty to protect. We just protect in different ways.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I'm not sure you helped your position with this little case study. Empty threats are always a bad idea . . .

I once saw a woman slap her child in the face with her open hand. I walked up to her and said "if I see you do that again I'm reporting you to Child Protective Services." She said "mind your own business."

I said, "mam, I work for CPS and if I see you do that again I'm calling the cops and we'll have those kids removed from your home due to child abuse. We'll let a judge decide if you are fit to raise those kids."

She stopped hitting her child and walked off.

And please understand, I'm not criticizing your choice as a private citizen to not intervene. As a CPS worker I have a higher standard of "duty to report," by law, to report not just abuse and neglect, but even suspicion of abuse and neglect.

It's not that different from the off-duty officer who has a duty to protect. We just protect in different ways.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I once saw a woman slap her child in the face with her open hand. I walked up to her and said "if I see you do that again I'm reporting you to Child Protective Services." She said "mind your own business."

I said, "mam, I work for CPS and if I see you do that again I'm calling the cops and we'll have those kids removed from your home due to child abuse. We'll let a judge decide if you are fit to raise those kids."

She stopped hitting her child and walked off.

And please understand, I'm not criticizing your choice as a private citizen to not intervene. As a CPS worker I have a higher standard of "duty to report," by law, to report not just abuse and neglect, but even suspicion of abuse and neglect.

It's not that different from the off-duty officer who has a duty to protect. We just protect in different ways.

I’m not criticizing you, but I have found that interjecting yourself into someone else’s business is always a bad idea.

I’ve seen things like this out in public. A friend of mine went to jail because he didn’t use good judgment. He ASSUMED he knew what was going on and tried to help a loss prevention officer in apprehending a shoplifter. He punched the shoplifter in the head knocking him out. He found out very shortly after that the man he knocked out was the loss prevention officer.

The store banned him for life. The loss prevention officer sued him. And the judge threw him jail.

 

[Lightfoot4]

I carry for me and mine. And when I see or hear people arguing I head in the opposite direction.

 

[flagman1776]

I know of several cases... that went sideways for the CCW owner.
A case here... last I heard, the retired ex-cop "defender" was still in state prison doing time for murder. Having driven the aggressor from his home, he pursued the aggressor into the street, firing again. The aggressor was fleeing, thus no longer a threat.

I'm not trigger happy but an attacker has placed himself at risk. If the attacker is driven off... I maintain the correct action is to take up a cover position if you think the perp might return (with a better weapon)... call 911... render first aid to any causality.

Yup, I remember that. It was a woman and she was charged... If we're thinking about the same story... This was a topic of a thread years back on another gun forum... Some learn the lesson the hard way... Even still, I can't begin to tell you how many full of themselves gun owners over at AKFiles and AR15.com feel otherwise. The consensus there is that it's your duty to get involved, and you're a coward if you don't take these criminal's lives when the opportunity presents itself...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...er-help-anybody-again/?utm_term=.f5f5c26f6efe

 

[Shield 9 WV]

Empty threats are always a bad idea . . .

I promise you, calling LE (with whom I worked closely) on that woman for abusing her child in public was NOT an empty threat.

My job at that time was to represent the state of West Virginia in district court in child abuse and neglect cases. I represented the kids who were removed from the home. I did visits to the foster homes until they were reunited with their families, or adopted out.

Parents who abuse or neglect their children either clean up their act or have their parental rights terminated by the courts, permanently. I made the recommendations to the court, which was always followed by the judge.

In another job as an in-home therapist I went into people's homes to conduct family therapy. There were many times when I called CPS on clients. It was my duty, by law and I informed the clients every time I called, and I explained why I was required to do so. Not one of them terminated my services.

I have no problem calling CPS to investigate when when it comes to protecting children who by definition are a vulnerable population and cannot protect themselves.

 

[LPD256]

Yup, I remember that. It was a woman and she was charged... If we're thinking about the same story... This was a topic of a thread years back on another gun forum... Some learn the lesson the hard way... Even still, I can't begin to tell you how many full of themselves gun owners over at AKFiles and AR15.com feel otherwise. The consensus there is that it's your duty to get involved, and you're a coward if you don't take these criminal's lives when the opportunity presents itself...


Legally, cops have a “duty” to get involved. CCW carriers don’t have any such duty. They have a “right” to protect themselves from significant bodily harm or death. There is a major difference. Shoot a shoplifter-do not pass Go......straight to jail...

 

[Well Armed]

Legally, cops have a “duty” to get involved. CCW carriers don’t have any such duty. They have a “right” to protect themselves from significant bodily harm or death. There is a major difference. Shoot a shoplifter-do not pass Go......straight to jail...

Preaching to the choir, on elsewhere on the web and in the gun community, you'd face harsh criticism for having such views.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Yup, I remember that. It was a woman and she was charged... If we're thinking about the same story... This was a topic of a thread years back on another gun forum... Some learn the lesson the hard way... Even still, I can't begin to tell you how many full of themselves gun owners over at AKFiles and AR15.com feel otherwise. The consensus there is that it's your duty to get involved, and you're a coward if you don't take these criminal's lives when the opportunity presents itself...


Legally, cops have a “duty” to get involved. CCW carriers don’t have any such duty. They have a “right” to protect themselves from significant bodily harm or death. There is a major difference. Shoot a shoplifter-do not pass Go......straight to jail...

Not according to the US Supreme Court.

 

[photoman]

1. "Gawk" long enough to realize there is a conflict.

2. Leave the area! They sell batteries down the street at the hardware store.

 

[hoc9sw]

Fortunately my responsibilities were set by my state term. Once I left that office, I was retired and had no further sworn obligations. I actually like it better that way.
I just keep walking unless they are shooting at me.
Then I run.

 

[Shield 9 WV]

1. "Gawk" long enough to realize there is a conflict.

2. Leave the area! They sell batteries down the street at the hardware store.

LOL! Short and to the point! I could learn a lot from you.
+++

And not that it matters, I did pick up a brick of 24 AA batteries (free with any purchase!) tonight at Harbor Freight, along with a small plastic ammo can for my bulk 9mm.

I manged to do that while conceal carrying my Shield 9 without confronting anyone or showing them my CCW license!

All thanks to my friends here who took the time to read my post and offer me good advice.

 

[Shield 9 WV]

I’m not criticizing you,

but I have found that interjecting yourself into someone else’s business is always a bad idea.

Please do feel free to criticize. How else am I going to learn, if not for the honesty of others?

In the mother-slapping-the-child incident, I was a trained professional with a lawful duty to report, which actually, I didn't do, but I wasn't going to chase this woman into the parking lot. I could go to jail for failure to comply with the duty-to-report law.

The list of professionals this law applies to is social workers, doctors, nurses and teachers. I don't remember if it applied to law enforcement, but I don't think so.

 

[louisq]

Too many CCW fellas with insufficient training, range time, and to damn nosey. It’s shoplifting, and we still don’t shoot thieves. Want to or not...
Reminds me of my neighbor, suddenly he’s neighborhood cop. I carry for my and mine protection. I’m not a LEO. Unless there was an officer nerving my help in a violent situation, and I followed his direction... well I wanna go,home and have a beer. Not save the jerk Waltons from losses. But I’m one of those that refuses to fund a company in bed with China.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not sure you helped your position with this little case study. Empty threats are always a bad idea . . .

Greg Ellefritz says you should never tell someone you're calling the cops because all it does is escalate the situation. If it's bad enough that you think the police should be called, call them but never use it as a threat.

At work I'm required to warn the person that I'm going to call the police before I actually do it. 90% of the time the person dares me to do it. The other 9% of the time the person goes off on some tangent that's designed to prolong the encounter and give them an excuse not to leave. Only 1% actually leave on the first warning. Almost every single time I have to actually key the mic and say "I need police response to....." before they actually comply and leave. Then there are those few who are actually dumb enough to wait for the cops and look surprised when they get the citation.

The only reason I would call the police away from work is a tweaker bedding down in my building and I wouldn't engage them at all I'd just call it in.