Derringer: Primary Carry?

[fredj338]

How much real world self-defense experience do you have?

As in how many gunfights? Zero. The exact same number about 75% of all LEO are in, maybe the same as 99% of all ccw. So what is your point? I know people that have been in gunfights & survived, I still would not accept any advice on gun handling or even tactics from them, because they weren't good just lucky & they admitted so.
I have had POST level LEO training, FOF, various tactical classes with accomplished "real world" trainers. So again what is your point?

 

[fredj338]

Question wasn't in this thread . . .

Oh good, I thought I missed something interesting. Yeah lets bounce around threads & ask questions.

 

[Smoke]

As in how many gunfights? Zero. The exact same number about 75% of all LEO are in, maybe the same as 99% of all ccw. So what is your point? I know people that have been in gunfights & survived, I still would not accept any advice on gun handling or even tactics from them, because they weren't good just lucky & they admitted so.
I have had POST level LEO training, FOF, various tactical classes with accomplished "real world" trainers. So again what is your point?

How many times (shots fired or not) have you actually had to defend your self from a criminal?

 

[fredj338]

How many times (shots fired or not) have you actually had to defend your self from a criminal?

As I said, about the same as 75% of all LEO or 99% of all ccw, zero. Again do you have a point? I know people that survived car crashes, doesn't mean I want to take driving lessons from them.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I think Smoke is trying to establish the basis from which your pontifications flow. Since you don't display an LEO badge, and have never claimed such, it seems safe to assume that you're in the 99% who are just guessing.

Your analogy about car crashes is just silly. Lots of people have survived assaults and shootings without a pistol. Certainly more than have survived a shooting with a pistol, and infinitely more that those who have survived by displaying or employing a pistol . . .

As I said, about the same as 75% of all LEO or 99% of all ccw, zero. Again do you have a point? I know people that survived car crashes, doesn't mean I want to take driving lessons from them.

 

[Muss Muggins]

. . . Yeah lets bounce around threads & ask questions.

Well, most of us try to remember what we posted from thread to thread . . .

 

[Wise_A]

 

[Muss Muggins]

Nah. I'm gonna let 'em down very easy . . .

 

[Protected One]

Inspired by the lively feedback from my Single Action Revolver Defense thread, I am now curious what the board thinks about using 2-shot Derringers as a primary carry gun:

I personally know a man (retired Desert Storm vet) who uses a Bond .410 derringer as his main carry weapon, and have heard of others using these handguns as their primary. What do you all think about this? They seem reliable and can be chambered in some effective cartridges but of course are capacity limited, but does it really matter?

Who here carries a double barrel derringer as their main concealed and carry, or would feel comfortable with it for defense?

Discuss!

NO, Just No.

I know a man who carries a dense stick with him everywhere.
I won't be doing that either.

 

[fredj338]

Well, most of us try to remember what we posted from thread to thread . . .

Yet we dont follow every thread every hour" some people will come onto a thread a week later & ask a question.

 

[fredj338]

I think Smoke is trying to establish the basis from which your pontifications flow. Since you don't display an LEO badge, and have never claimed such, it seems safe to assume that you're in the 99% who are just guessing.

Your analogy about car crashes is just silly. Lots of people have survived assaults and shootings without a pistol. Certainly more than have survived a shooting with a pistol, and infinitely more that those who have survived by displaying or employing a pistol . . .

I know plenty of leo that so not know squat about shooting. Since the vast majority of all leo never get into a gunfight, merely wearing a badge does not bestow skill level or even understanding of what it will take to win a fight. The dufus at parkland school is a good example. I know leo that have survived a gunfight & fully admit it was shear luck. So again, what is the point of asking how many fights you have been in.
My shooting exp & training is quite broad, including instructing. That should give me a basis for my opinions. Leo exp, so? 20y of writing tickets & solving domestic disputes & arresting drunks. Just what is their basis for informed opinion on ballistics &/or shooting? Yeah, thought so.

 

[Dvan34]

Another consideration is that there be more than one bad guy? And sometimes it takes more than one shot to stop or slow the bad guy down.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Had a derringer once. Couldn't hit anything with it. To each their own, but I think I would be doing myself a disservice to carry one as a primary.

A friend has a Bond Arms 45LC/410. Nice gun. But because of the size and weight, I can think of several guns that would be a better choice. But in the end, he's happy.

 

[Smoke]

I onow plenty of leo that so not knoq squat about shooting. Since the vast majority of all leo never het into a gunfight, metely weaeing a badge does not bestow skill level or even inderstanding of what it will take to win a fight. The dufus at parkland school os a good example. I know leo that have survived a gunfightb& fully admit it was shear luck. So again, what is the point of asking how many fights you have been in.
My shooting exp & training is quite broad, including instructing. That should give me a basis for my opinions. Leo exp, so? 20y of writing tickets & solving domestic disputes & arresting drunks. Just what is their basis for informed opinion on ballistics &/or shooting? Yeah, thought so.

To paraphrase Bruce Lee "Targets don't shoot back."

I didn't ask you how many fights you've been in nor did I ask you how many gun fights you've ever been in. I asked you what your level of self defense experience is. I want to know what qualifies you to tell anyone how to respond to an actual criminal encounter.

I'm not an NRA certified instructor and I haven't had POST certified training but I have had to deal with two guys trying to rob me one night. I've also had to deal with a tweaker trying to snatch my gun. I also know what it feels like to be cruising along minding my business and have someone start shooting with you right in the middle it.

I also know what that awful moment when you realize that this is real, you can't call time out and if you get it wrong you can be seriously injured or killed or if you over react you can end up in jail for the rest of your life feels like. There's not enough training in the world to prepare you for for that.

There's a line between training and the real world. People who have crossed the line get it. People (like you) who haven't, don't.

That's why I find it amusing when you (to use Muss' word) pontificate about how I should react to a self defense situation.

 

[sigp220.45]

Hmmmmm. I've never shot anyone, but I spent eight years arresting felons in New Orleans during those pre-Katrina glory years of 435 murders a year in a city of 400,000 people. (For scale, my last duty station in Denver had about 50 murders a year in a city of over 600,000 people). I went into murderer's homes and pointed my gun at them and took them to jail. I didn't bother to keep count, but it had to be at least 500 times. One day, I arrested three murderers before mid-afternoon (all separate murders).

Then I spent 17 years working violent crime on Indian reservations in the wild west. Usually it was me and a tribal investigator in the deep rez hours from help going into someone's house and hauling them out to face the music.

But, I managed not to shoot anyone so it counts the same as writing tickets and handling domestics. Both of which, by the way, can be extraordinarily dangerous.

I do know if I had just been pointing my finger at them instead a Sig .45, I'd be dead.

I respect everyone's experience. But if you get all butthurt when someone asks about yours, it tells me something.

Also, I like derringers.

 

[Glouglou]

So I assume that the derringer detractors don't like the titanium double tape defense gun?

 

[Smoke]

I don't know too many people who have actually had to defend themselves who are willing to use a two-shot Derringer or a single action revolver or a .22 revolver of any kind as a primary defensive weapon.

 

[dockmurgw]

But, I managed not to shoot anyone so it counts the same as writing tickets and handling domestics. Both of which, by the way, can be extraordinarily dangerous.
Also, I like derringers.

I'm glad to see a man with your experience point this out to him. To me, someone who discounts tickets and domestics like it's meter maid work has 0 credibility with me, and tells me he knows nothing about a LEO's work. I have no experience myself, but a blind man can follow the news understand the risks. And, every afternoon at 5 I talk to my daughter when she goes on duty as a state trooper working the night shift. By herself, pulling over cars, going to domestics and dealing with drunks in the middle of the night when the decent people are tucked under the blankets. Were only a state of 600,000 but have already had several police shootings during domestics gone bad already this year. I often have to stop her from telling me about her night...my ulcers resulting from chronic worry cant take it. Yea fredj338, they dam well better know what it will take to win a fight, and they do. Even though they "merely wear a badge" as you claim. Now go play with your paper targets and study your ballistic charts.

 

[Muss Muggins]

What he said, but different places and different objectives, at times. Still the same type of experience. But I like my NAA .22 WMR better than derringers. But this thread has me considering buying one. Dad had a High Standard in his collection when he died, and we sold it. Now I wish I'd kept it . . .

Hmmmmm. I've never shot anyone, but I spent eight years arresting felons in New Orleans during those pre-Katrina glory years of 435 murders a year in a city of 400,000 people. (For scale, my last duty station in Denver had about 50 murders a year in a city of over 600,000 people). I went into murderer's homes and pointed my gun at them and took them to jail. I didn't bother to keep count, but it had to be at least 500 times. One day, I arrested three murderers before mid-afternoon (all separate murders).

Then I spent 17 years working violent crime on Indian reservations in the wild west. Usually it was me and a tribal investigator in the deep rez hours from help going into someone's house and hauling them out to face the music.

But, I managed not to shoot anyone so it counts the same as writing tickets and handling domestics. Both of which, by the way, can be extraordinarily dangerous.

I do know if I had just been pointing my finger at them instead a Sig .45, I'd be dead.

I respect everyone's experience. But if you get all butthurt when someone asks about yours, it tells me something.

Also, I like derringers.

 

[The Big D]

Not all fights are settled...

...by gunfire. Ditto for any type confrontation. You sound like that would be your sole recourse.

In my crime fighting days if I shot everyone who assaulted me there would be lotsa dead people.

And if you somehow think 'training,' absent a REAL LIFE adversary, makes you some kinda self-defense expert you are fooling yourself.

I onow plenty of leo that so not knoq squat about shooting. Since the vast majority of all leo never het into a gunfight, metely weaeing a badge does not bestow skill level or even inderstanding of what it will take to win a fight. The dufus at parkland school os a good example. I know leo that have survived a gunfightb& fully admit it was shear luck. So again, what is the point of asking how many fights you have been in.
My shooting exp & training is quite broad, including instructing. That should give me a basis for my opinions. Leo exp, so? 20y of writing tickets & solving domestic disputes & arresting drunks. Just what is their basis for informed opinion on ballistics &/or shooting? Yeah, thought so.