AR15 Pistol questions

[03hemi]

Just because everybody else is posting pictures of their babies.
Springfield Saint Pistol 7.5" with "a whole lot" of customizing and Binary II Trigger by Fostech.
Unfortunately, if you shot this thing indoors, EVERYBODY would be permanently deaf, even suppressed.

 

[Borderboss]

I read that and it says if you want to make an NFA firearm that you must jump through the tax loop, etc. to do so.
Maybe I'm wrong but you would NOT be making an NFA controlled firearm. You would be making an AR pistol which is not NFA controlled....right?
That one sentence seems to remove it from NFA territory
This would only apply if the stock was changed to pistol configuration.

No, you're wrong. You're not making an AR Pistol, you're making a short-barrelled rifle (SBR), which is an NFA-controlled firearm. Once a lower is a rifle, it can never go back to being a pistol. It can only become an SBR, and therefore needs the tax stamp.

 

[Jessie]

I imagine I am wrong because it makes no logical sense to me.
It's like when they said that if you shouldered an AR pistol you just made it a rifle.
I understand the convoluted argument but certainly don't agree with it.
Unfortunately for me, my opinion is worthless in the matter.

 

[Borderboss]

I imagine I am wrong because it makes no logical sense to me.
It's like when they said that if you shouldered an AR pistol you just made it a rifle.
I understand the convoluted argument but certainly don't agree with it.
Unfortunately for me, my opinion is worthless in the matter.

It's federal law. It's not supposed to make sense.

 

[03hemi]

I imagine I am wrong because it makes no logical sense to me.
It's like when they said that if you shouldered an AR pistol you just made it a rifle.
I understand the convoluted argument but certainly don't agree with it.
Unfortunately for me, my opinion is worthless in the matter.

That ruling was reversed, for more confusion, you are now allowed to shoulder a pistol according to the ATF. lol

 

[BB57]

That ruling was reversed, for more confusion, you are now allowed to shoulder a pistol according to the ATF. lol

ATF screwed up big time when it allowed a brace to be put on a pistol in the first place.

Then they tried to walk it back by saying that if you shouldered a brace equipped pistol that use of the pistol redefined it as a "rifle", and in this case an illegal short barreled rifle. The argument was that a brace was intended to allow the AR-15 pistol to be fired with one hand, and using two hands violated that intended use.

That created all sorts of issues. For example, the 1911 was also designed to be fired with one hand, but almost everyone shoots a 1911 with 2 hands.

In the end they were forced to back away from the "can't shoulder a braced pistol" and that left us with braced pistols that can be used in the same role as an SBR, making a mockery of the whole SBR classification. Not that that's a bad thing as SBRs are almost never used in crimes anyway, so neither an SBR or a braced AR-15 are nearly as likely to be used in a crime (its heavy and not real concealable) as a regular pistol.

 

[03hemi]

ATF screwed up big time when it allowed a brace to be put on a pistol in the first place.

Then they tried to walk it back by saying that if you shouldered a brace equipped pistol that use of the pistol redefined it as a "rifle", and in this case an illegal short barreled rifle. The argument was that a brace was intended to allow the AR-15 pistol to be fired with one hand, and using two hands violated that intended use.

That created all sorts of issues. For example, the 1911 was also designed to be fired with one hand, but almost everyone shoots a 1911 with 2 hands.

In the end they were forced to back away from the "can't shoulder a braced pistol" and that left us with braced pistols that can be used in the same role as an SBR, making a mockery of the whole SBR classification. Not that that's a bad thing as SBRs are almost never used in crimes anyway, so neither an SBR or a braced AR-15 are nearly as likely to be used in a crime (its heavy and not real concealable) as a regular pistol.

Not totally, you still can't put a vertical foregrip on it, only an angled one. I don't think they screwed up a bit, I love the fact that I can now have basically an SBR but with a brace instead of a stock. No paperwork, no hassles, I love it.

 

[Sistema1927]

Local PD seized an AR pistol along with a pretty good load of narcotics from a 17 year old the other day. The AR pistol had a double drum magazine, but no brace, just a bare buffer tube.

 

[Borderboss]

Local PD seized an AR pistol along with a pretty good load of narcotics from a 17 year old the other day. The AR pistol had a double drum magazine, but no brace, just a bare buffer tube.

A 17-year-old in possession of any kind of pistol is a violation of federal law. It doesn't matter that it was an AR pistol. Hopefully the feds step in to prosecute, because local law enforcement usually negotiates these charges down, especially in left-run areas.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Bought a PSA 7 inch pistol and I am in love with it!!! It's what I never knew I wanted in an A.R. 15. But some questions come to mind and Google is useless.

1) How does law enforcement know if it's a legal pistol or an illegal one? The word pistol is not stamped on the lower so if you just make one how can they tell? Would they even question you or every time they run in to somebody with a pistol version do they call in the serial numbers?

2) I "think" I found out the answer to this but would like to verify that I can use multiple uppers, so I can go from an 11 inch or 10 inch or 7 inch barrel and still be legal correct?

3) Now the big one!!! Which by the way is what led me to asking question number one. Hoping I can. So I have a Colt LE 6920 with a ton of expensive upgrades to the lower. I was getting ready to transfer all of those parts, my Geissele trigger and others nice upfits when it hit me, why bother? Why not just unscrew the buffer tube and use the PSA pistol buffer tube and screw it into the Colt lower and start using that!!!!!

Yes, no???

1) This was my biggest concern when I purchased my first AR pistol a couple of weeks ago. I bought the Ruger AR556 pistol with 10.5" barrel. I made a copy of my receipt. Installed a Mapul hand grip that has the storage compartment and folded the receipt and put it in there. The receipt has the serial number of the lower and clearly states PISTOL on it.

2) All my research indicates that there is no problem (legally) switching pistol length uppers on a pistol lower. In fact, I bought and installed a 7.5" 300 Blackout upper on the Ruger pistol lower. I like it better than the 5.56 upper that came with it.

3) Nope. Don't put a rifle buffer tube on a pistol lower. There are some differences and that's what makes a pistol a pistol and a rifle a rifle. Once a lower is classified as a rifle it must stay a rifle. And never put a rifle stock on a pistol lower without first having the SBR stamp in hand.

 

[The_Truth]

I have heard, and correct me if I am wrong, that it doesn't matter how a stripped lower is transferred, i.e. whether it was transferred as "pistol," "rifle," or "other," since it is none of those as it sits as a stripped lower. Seems to me it could be transferred as any of those 3. It doesn't become any of those 3 until an upper is attached to it. It is also easily provable that at the time of transfer is was a stripped lower and can become any of those 3 at any time.

Of course once you attach a rifle upper (16' barrel or more) to a lower, it is forever a rifle and cannot be outfitted with a shorter barrel without some ridiculous paperwork.

IANAL

 

[boykinlp]

This is a slightly confusing, but very interesting post.

 

[Sistema1927]

I have heard, and correct me if I am wrong, that it doesn't matter how a stripped lower is transferred, i.e. whether it was transferred as "pistol," "rifle," or "other," since it is none of those as it sits as a stripped lower. Seems to me it could be transferred as any of those 3. It doesn't become any of those 3 until an upper is attached to it. It is also easily provable that at the time of transfer is was a stripped lower and can become any of those 3 at any time.

Of course once you attach a rifle upper (16' barrel or more) to a lower, it is forever a rifle and cannot be outfitted with a shorter barrel without some ridiculous paperwork.

IANAL

A stripped lower should transfer as "Other", as you state. However, your last sentence is not technically correct.

If you first build that lower as a rifle, then it is considered a rifle and you must SBR it in order to use a barrel shorter than 16". However, if you first build it as a pistol, you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle configurations as often as you want. So, your sentence "once you attach a rifle upper...it is forever a rifle" would only be correct if the lower was first configured as a rifle.

 

[The_Truth]

A stripped lower should transfer as "Other", as you state. However, your last sentence is not technically correct.

If you first build that lower as a rifle, then it is considered a rifle and you must SBR it in order to use a barrel shorter than 16". However, if you first build it as a pistol, you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle configurations as often as you want. So, your sentence "once you attach a rifle upper...it is forever a rifle" would only be correct if the lower was first configured as a rifle.

That's also my understanding.

So in conclusion, even if your FFL transfers a stripped lower to you as a "rifle," that makes no difference as long as you build it as a pistol.

 

[Rayfan87]

You just have to be careful if you're in a state like NY, all pistols have to be listed on your permit.

 

[DADoser]

First foray into AR pistol platform.
On May 17, I bought a Ruger 556 pistol. Seemed like a great quality option for the money. Took it to the range and it had issues - half extraction. Expected to have to send it to Ruger directly and wait for them to repair and return. Took it back to my LGS. They and their distributor stood by it, gave me store credit and ordered a new one for me.

Picked the new one up Friday 6/14, cleaned and lubed; range trip; and put 120 flawless rounds through it.

Added Magpul MBUS sights; Sig Romeo 5 red dot; swapped out the stock grip for a gray Magpul MOE K2+; added gray Magpul hand stop and rail covers.

This thing is fun to shoot. I see my ammo budget increasing for this year.

 

[vipermd]

A while back I was lucky enough to find a distributor that had obtained several Colt Defense M-4 lowers direct from the factory. Since they had never been built into rifles, I got two lowers and turned them into pistols with Colt factory 10.5 inch uppers, and sets of Colt lower parts. So I have a COLT AR pistol.

No, you have two illegal sbr's. They were rifle lowers and remain as such unless they were made as a pistol lower. Read ATF site link provided by S&WChad. You can convince yourself that it is legal to make a rifle into a pistol, your friends can tell you so, but that does not make it so, but I would suggest talking to ATF or a firearm attorney. Make sure you get Name and badge from ATF inspector for future reference. Be Safe,

 

[Sistema1927]

No, you have two illegal sbr's. They were rifle lowers and remain as such unless they were made as a pistol lower. Read ATF site link provided by S&WChad. You can convince yourself that it is legal to make a rifle into a pistol, your friends can tell you so, but that does not make it so, but I would suggest talking to ATF or a firearm attorney. Make sure you get Name and badge from ATF inspector for future reference. Be Safe,

You might be right here, but I am scratching my head.

If, as he said, they were obtained as never built stripped lowers, in what way would they be different from the two Anderson "poverty ponies" that I built into legal pistols?

Being Colts, I would certainly want to maintain documentation as to their status.

 

[Borderboss]

No, you have two illegal sbr's. They were rifle lowers and remain as such unless they were made as a pistol lower. Read ATF site link provided by S&WChad. You can convince yourself that it is legal to make a rifle into a pistol, your friends can tell you so, but that does not make it so, but I would suggest talking to ATF or a firearm attorney. Make sure you get Name and badge from ATF inspector for future reference. Be Safe,

This is not correct. Lowers sold without an upper are an "other", not a "rifle". It doesn't matter who made them or what the manufacturer's intent was should they have completed them as a total firearm.

 

[vipermd]

That's also my understanding.

So in conclusion, even if your FFL transfers a stripped lower to you as a "rifle," that makes no difference as long as you build it as a pistol.

No If someone under the age of 21 wants to purchase a stripped lower it MUST be sold as a rifle, if purchased from an FFL. From that time forward it is a rifle, and cannot be converted back and forth between a rifle/pistol. I discussed this with ATF today. Be Safe,
EDIT: A stripped lower can only be sold to someone 21 or older, it will still be transferred as "other"- clarification