Need to repair damaged rear sight on S&W Model 17-5

[mikemyers]

I have a problem with a S&W Model 17-5 I am buying from another member of the Buillseye Forum. Serial number is AW VT816. The gun arrived at my FFL yesterday, and appeared to be in excellent condition. Both double action and single action were smooth and buttery, as nice as any gun I have yet used. So I headed to my shooting range, near the FFL.

When I got to the range, someone pointed out to me that the rear sight blade was all the way to the right. I had already noticed that the top of the rear sight blade was "canted" with the left edge too low. We tried to sight the gun in at 25 yards, which was impossible. We would turn the adjuster a few clicks and the hole in the target would move as expected, but one or two clicks more would send the hole several inches away. The following will be a summary of what I found out last night and this morning while examining the rear sight.


The left edge of the rear sight blade moves up and down as the windage screw is adjusted.

When the left edge of the sight blade is down, it is very noticeable. I measured the difference in height from the sight blade support to the top of the sight blade…. Right side = 0.136", left side = 0.114, so the difference in height was 0.022". It can be worse, depending on where I turn the adjusting screw.

On the rear left side of the sight blade, down at the bottom, there is a shiny spot that might have been caused by it "scraping" against the sight body, if it was being forced down, perhaps from something hitting it. The top right corner of the rear sight is almost a "square corner", but the top left corner looks slightly flattened out, again making me think something hit it.

Pushing on either end of the rear sight blade causes it to move sideways, without needing to turn the adjusting screw.



I will attach a close-up photo taken from the rear of the gun, showing the "cant". I also took a photo of the screw that holds the sight onto the gun. At some point in time, someone must have removed the sight assembly, without using the proper screwdriver.


What is the best way to get this fixed? Should I take the whole gun to a gunsmith? Should I remove the rear sight completely? Are the original parts available online?

 

[steelslaver]

It looks tome like it got dropped or something and hit on the sight body which cause the the attachment screw and the hole it passes though to be damaged. Then someone probably messed up the slot. You can find the correct sight body.But, first I would remove the sight. Clean every thing up. Where the area beside the screw head is mucked up I would lay the sight on a heavy piece of steel. Then a sharp chisel o slightly dull knife to try to fix the messed up slot by tap it with a hammer to move the displaced metal back in place. The reinstall the sight with a new screw and a new rear blade. The new blade should come with a new screw to move it back and forth. The end gets staked so the nut won't unscrew. Don't stake it until your sure the body is OK

 

[AJ]

Why not just buy a whole new rear sight from Numrich (Gun Parts Corp.)
Smith & Wesson 17-5 Revolver Parts, Schematics | Gun Parts Corp.

 

[mikemyers]

Why not just buy a whole new rear sight from Numrich (Gun Parts Corp.)
Smith & Wesson 17-5 Revolver Parts, Schematics | Gun Parts Corp.

Excellent idea, except that they are out of stock.
Part key = 10-18, Rear Sight Assembly, White Outline (.146) Product #300520

When they have different numbers, such as (.136) and (.146), what are those numbers referring to?

I assume I need to buy all the parts from #10 up to #19, once I figure out which are the right ones for my gun?

 

[mikemyers]

It looks tome like it got dropped or something and hit on the sight body which cause the the attachment screw and the hole it passes though to be damaged. Then someone probably messed up the slot. You can find the correct sight body.But, first I would remove the sight. Clean every thing up. Where the area beside the screw head is mucked up I would lay the sight on a heavy piece of steel. Then a sharp chisel o slightly dull knife to try to fix the messed up slot by tap it with a hammer to move the displaced metal back in place. The reinstall the sight with a new screw and a new rear blade. The new blade should come with a new screw to move it back and forth. The end gets staked so the nut won't unscrew. Don't stake it until your sure the body is OK

Confused, which area are you referring to by the area beside the screw head? This is the screw that holds the sight onto the gun?

Removing it sounds like a good start. Identifying which are the correct replacement parts sounds rather difficult for me, not knowing yet which is which. Regardless of anything else, I guess I should start by removing it from the gun. Thanks. Will ask more questions later.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I see the nut is about to fall off.. tighten nut ,then back off 1/8 turn, restake screw.

 

[bigggbbruce]

It looks tome like it got dropped or something and hit on the sight body which cause the the attachment screw and the hole it passes though to be damaged. Then someone probably messed up the slot. You can find the correct sight body.But, first I would remove the sight. Clean every thing up. Where the area beside the screw head is mucked up I would lay the sight on a heavy piece of steel. Then a sharp chisel o slightly dull knife to try to fix the messed up slot by tap it with a hammer to move the displaced metal back in place. The reinstall the sight with a new screw and a new rear blade. The new blade should come with a new screw to move it back and forth. The end gets staked so the nut won't unscrew. Don't stake it until your sure the body is OK

Don't do this. The screw wasn't staked properly. the nut is loose and the slide will move back and forth. If you're not careful you'll loose the detent and spring.

 

[mikemyers]

I......first I would remove the sight. Clean every thing up. Where the area beside the screw head is mucked up I would lay the sight on a heavy piece of steel. Then a sharp chisel o slightly dull knife to try to fix the messed up slot by tap it with a hammer to move the displaced metal back in place. The reinstall the sight with a new screw and a new rear blade. The new blade should come with a new screw to move it back and forth. The end gets staked so the nut won't unscrew. Don't stake it until your sure the body is OK

The sight is now off. Is there any need to remove what I think is the "Rear Sight Elevatio Stud"? The elevation adjustment screw is above it, with the sight body in-between. Do I just leave those parts as-is? If I need to disassemble it, how does it come apart?

Also, to remove the rear sight blade, apparently I use a flat blade screwdriver at one end, and some kind of special tool to break the other end off. Where does one buy this tool?

After removing each "end", with the shaft between them, will the sight blade just lift up out of the housing? If so, I assume I can measure it, and get a new one of the proper height?

I will get new screws, to match the like-new condition of the rest of the gun.

Again, when I'm selecting the Rear Sight Slide, what is the difference between the .136 and .146 slides?


Ouch - in all my previous emails and posts, I've been referring to the rear sight blade. Now I understand it is the assembly, with a threaded cylinder at the bottom so it can be adjusted right/left.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Lower rear lowers POI. Is the nut loose allowing the slide to move back and forth. If it does move, simply setting it up correctly will do wonders.

 

[mikemyers]

Lower rear lowers POI. Is the nut loose allowing the slide to move back and forth. If it does move, simply setting it up correctly will do wonders.

If you're asking me if what I was calling the "sight blade" moves back and forth as I turn the adjustment screw, yes, it does. It also moves back and forth if I simply push on it. Assuming there are threads in there somewhere, one part or the other, or both, are stripped.

 

[mikemyers]

Don't do this. The screw wasn't staked properly. the nut is loose and the slide will move back and forth. If you're not careful you'll loose the detent and spring.

Where are the detent and spring? Which part numbers are they in the parts drawing I posted up above?

If we're talking about the adjustment screw on the right, and the "nut" that is on the left end, apparently everything is already stripped as I can move the blade right or left with just finger pressure.

If parts are going to go flying as I remove the nut from the left side, I'll do this inside a large plastic baggie so they can't get lost. If I don't take it apart, I may need to buy a replacement sight......

 

[bigggbbruce]

If you're asking me if what I was calling the "sight blade" moves back and forth as I turn the adjustment screw, yes, it does. It also moves back and forth if I simply push on it. Assuming there are threads in there somewhere, one part or the other, or both, are stripped.

The screw threads into the sight blade. The nut holds the assembly ( slide, screw, nut, detent and spring ) within' the sight base. If the nut is loose on the screw that assembly will move side to side. When assembling the nut is turned until it touches the base, then slightly back off so the screw can turn freely to adjust windage. This is where the nut is to be staked. In your picture I can plainly see the nut sticking out of the base looks a couple threads loose... they sit under flush.. this is what I see.

 

[bigggbbruce]

The detent is 11 + 12.. yes they can go flying..

I doubt the slide is stipped.. If you can screw the nut on or off NOW... it's just loose..not staked correctly..

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6au83u4A78[/ame]

 

[ken158]

If you had your location in your profile, you might some local assistance.

 

[Narragansett]

I bought a M28, and it was packaged poorly, and the rear sight got bent. I asked someone on this forum if they would fix it for me and they did. Just unscrew the whole assembly, and ask one of the gunsmiths on this site if they will fix it for you. Ask on the S&W smithing forum. Then while the sight is being repaired, you can pick up a couple screws to replace the buggered up one at S&W, Numrich, Brownells, or Midway

 

[mikemyers]

First, I'm in Miami Beach. I'll add that to my profile - thanks.

I'm expecting to replace the entire sight, as suggested earlier. Then I just slide it into place and I'm done. I wasn't planning on doing any of this work. I'll see how well I can do the things you're all suggesting.

I'm learning a lot. Thanks!!

 

[mikemyers]

I tried to respond, but my entry got lost. Will try again.

The sight is back on the gun.

I tightened the windage screw until both the sight blade was more or less in the center, and the nut is now flush against the left edge of the sight. I'd like to make it tighter, but without the tool, I haven't yet thought of a way to do that. I need to order the tool tonight.

The blade is back to being canted, but not as much as before. I will take measurements, but first I'd like to tighten the windage screw as advised up above - can't do it any more now, as the nut turns with it. Maybe I can find some small pliers.

I think my goal is still to buy the complete sight, but in the meantime I'm learning a lot more just by following the advice here. I'll attach a photo showing the nut at the far end from the adjustment screw. It's tighter - but I think I need to get things tightened completely, then back out the screw as described above.

 

[mikemyers]

.........Just unscrew the whole assembly, and ask one of the gunsmiths on this site if they will fix it for you. Ask on the S&W smithing forum. Then while the sight is being repaired, you can pick up a couple screws to replace the buggered up one at S&W, Numrich, Brownells, or Midway

If at all possible, I would rather buy whatever tools and parts are needed, and fix it myself. So far you guys are doing great.

I did find a complete rear sight that was replaced on my S&W Model 28. It actually does slide into place, but the length from front to back is different. Also, on that sight, the nut and related parts to lock into place appear to be half the size of the similar parts on the Model 17.


While I'm asking, how useful is the "white outline" on the back of the sight blade? It looks nice, but unless I'm standing in bright sunlight, I don't notice it, not to mention it's blurry because I'm focused on the front sight. Is it a "gimmick", or is it actually useful?

 

[k22fan]

I think I can still add a little help on miscellaneous points.

A spanner wrench for for the windage nut can be quickly and easily made by filling a small flat head screwdriver. Ordering one takes too long and the shipping likely is as much as the tool.

The numbers that identify different rear blades are the height of the blade. Generally taller blades are needed for longer barrels and higher velocity cartridges.

White outlines and dots show up in low light situations when there is a light source behind the shooter or if he holds his flash light behind the gun. A variety of dots, beads or lines are easier to see for some people with poor vision. However, while they are the worst in low light, traditionally target shooters used all black sights for best accuracy.

The red ramp front that S&W used to combine with a white line rear also helps in low light but is most useful for estimating how high to hold the front sight shooting at long range in good light. As an example, firing a 240-250 gr. bullet at 850-900 fps I use a 6 O'clock hold at 25 yards, a center hold and 50 yards and hold half the red ramp above the rear notch at 100 yards. A little experimentation will determine what works for you.

 

[mikemyers]

The detent is 11 + 12.. yes they can go flying..

I doubt the slide is stipped.. If you can screw the nut on or off NOW... it's just loose..not staked correctly..

YouTube

Quick question - 40 seconds into this video you posted, it says to turn the windage screw counter clockwise until it breaks. This will sound like a silly question, but what actually breaks?

If I understand all this correctly, the windage screw itself has a small hole for a spring and detent, which is what we are listening to as we "count the clicks". The other end of the windage screw goes into a round nut at the other end (which is held in place by punching the middle of the nut area). When we are told the Windage screw breaks, is this saying that it has broken free from the nut, or that something actually has broken.

My windage screw is almost certainly broken free from the nut, as I can turn the screw easily without the nut turning. I can only get it so tight though - that's where I need to get the wrench to hold the nut in place as I tighten the screw, then back it off slightly.

Lastly, Brownells has one type of special tool to hold the nut, with two "prongs", and Midway has what they call a "spanner wrench" which I guess does the same job, but looks very different. Which one should I buy? I can post photos if that would help.