Convicted of Manslaughter

I think the verdict was correct. Yeah, all concerned should have acted differently.

I find little correlation between this case and the Zimmerman incident. IMHO Zimmerman got screwed over..../

/...I sill feel a citizen has a duty to act to save others, if absolutely necessary, and after immediate family is made safe, if that an issue.

I agree with you on the duty to protect others. I grew up on a ranch and the nearest deputy was probably 45-60 minutes away. You looked out for yourself and for your neighbors because it's all you realistically had. Even in an urban area, the response time to a violent crime is going to be on the order of 8-12 minutes, and it's going to be over and done by then. Armed citizens are responsible for their own self defense, and when possible, the defense of others.

I have not worn a uniform since the late 1980s, but it still bothers me when I read comments from former or currently serving officers who state very clearly they're only going to look out for themselves and their family in an active shooter situation. It bothers me even worse when I read a new article about an initial responding officer who doesn't engage the shooter when department policy is for him/her to do exactly that. It goes with the job and if he/she is not committed to that, he/she needs to find a more appropriate line of work.

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That said, defense of others can be very problematic. For example, you see a guy pulling a child out of a lady's car. You assume it's a kidnapping and shoot the guy. The problem is that he was the custodial parent taking his child back from a non custodial mother who illegally took her/was trying to take her in the first place. Make that mistake, even with the best of intentions, and you better plan on spending the next 20 years in prison.

Consequently, you need to be sure that you really understand what is happening and or that it is truly an active shooter event AND that you have correctly identified the bad guy before you get involved. There is no police department to back you up when you make that mistake, and there is none of the latitude for an armed citizen that is extended to a police officer when a mistake of fact shooting occurs.

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I partly agree about the Zimmerman case. He exceeded his authority and went looking for trouble until he found it. He stalked Martin (who had every right to be there) until Martin turned on him. However, once Martin started banging Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk Zimmerman now faced an imminent threat and had a justification to shoot. But it was still a shoot that was 100% preventable.

Despite his poorly thought out actions Zimmerman should not have been charged, and certainly not with second degree murder. However he did use incredibly poor judgement. The reality is that if you shoot someone in self defense you can reasonably expect to be arrested, charged and end up in court sorting it out, unless the facts are VERY clear and VERY clearly indicate it was self defense in a situation you in no way provoked or escalated.

Zimmerman was acting in defense of others but in a situation where no threat existed until he put himself in a situation where he could be threatened, and at best he was protecting property, not lives. Really bad call on his part.
 
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I don't see any similarities between this case and the Zimmerman case.

Among other things, the state attorney circumvented a lot of rules to charge Zimmerman when he had already been cleared by investigators.

Nor was it ever established at trial that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. It was established that he was on the ground and his attacker was beating him when Zimmerman shot.

I paid a lot of attention to that trial and I feel safe in saying that Zimmerman's prosecution was driven by the media and a dishonest politician.

None of that was present in the case we are discussing. In addition to every other mistake Drejka made, he talked to the police without an attorney present. He pretty much made the prosecutions case for them.
 
Heck, I have a handicapped parking placard. I seldom use it because there are so many others who need those spaces more, and I only need them on really bad days.

Two days ago, on Friday Aug. 23, I met with Forum members Erich and SharkBait for lunch in Albuquerque. I was the first vehicle in the parking lot, bypassed the handicapped spaces and parked at the far end of the row. Then I hobbled about 50 feet into the restaurant with my cane. As tables filled up I saw a couple of people using walkers and an elderly lady being assisted by two younger people.

On bad days the pain is sufficient that I don't want to hike a hundred yards into the grocery store, so I grab one of the handicapped spots and hang my placard on the rearview mirror.

Parking enforcement hung a $200 ticket on my vehicle once for parking in a handicapped space. Took the ticket, my handicapped placard, and the paperwork to court and it was dismissed. I think the ticket writer was basing decisions only on the rear license plates, without walking around to the front to see if there was a placard, and just didn't notice.

Yes, I have seen lots of young, fully able people pull into a handicapped parking spot and use it like it was just made for them. Chaps my cheeks a little bit, but I bite my tongue and say nothing. Certainly haven't shot anyone over a stupid parking space.
 
So in addition to the convicted person, at least two people committed crimes that day. That's not exactly where I was going, but thanks for making a hyperbolic statement . . .

I could be wrong, but I think that it was the girlfriend who was driving. Let's execute her as well for such a heinous crime.
 
"I find little correlation between this case and the Zimmerman incident. IMHO Zimmerman got screwed over."

Two armed men separately initiate a conflict with unknown individuals for acts that are truly none of the aggressor's business; and both conflicts end in the death of the second party.

Two young men decided to pass on the wits angle during a conflict and go hands on as they lost their cool; and both conflicts ended in the death of those who couldn't keep their hands to themselves.

There just might be a lesson in there........
 
Two young men decided to pass on the wits angle during a conflict and go hands on as they lost their cool; and both conflicts ended in the death of those who couldn't keep their hands to themselves. There just might be a lesson in there........


Neither of the deceased created the conflict with their killers.
 
Neither of the deceased created the conflict with their killers.

They most seriously accelerated it! Young dumb and full of attitude, they both went HANDS on.

Not a lawyer but sleep in some motels, both of those now dead tough guys at the minimum were guilty of a battery.
 
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"They most seriously accelerated it! Young dumb and full of attitude, they both went HANDS on."

So you advocate that it is acceptable to provoke a fight with someone then kill them if the outcome is not in your favor?

I disagree with that.
 
"They most seriously accelerated it! Young dumb and full of attitude, they both went HANDS on."

So you advocate that it is acceptable to provoke a fight with someone then kill them if the outcome is not in your favor?


I disagree with that.

Hell no if you had taken the time to read my other post (12) you would see that!

My statement of Hands on is a fact.
 
Neither of the deceased created the conflict with their killers.

So by your reasoning...anyone who starts a conflict with me means I can go hands on with?

Sometimes they start it, sometimes we start it....how you deal with it is more the life lesson that the two no deceased never learned. Doesn't matter if the other party is mouthing off to you....there is a little something called free speech in the 1st amendment. Grant it, some use that to be a jerk, but regardless, it doesn't grant the receiver to go hands on.
 
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hdtwice, I believe it is realistic to assume that if a person relentlessly follows a teenager around in the dark they may be subjected to whatever action that undeveloped teenage brain tells it's owner to do; fight or flight. Only two people were there, and now the one who was guilty only of minding his own business is dead.

The man getting into the wrongfully parked car should of exercised more self control one would expect from a mature man. He definitely pushed the wrong guy.

You however should choose the best course of action for your particular circumstances if such an incident occurs. Choose wisely.
 
This guy was a yahoo from the get-go.


To paraphrase Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid: he brought a gun to a $30 parking infraction.

Well, where I live, illegally parking in a handicap space is a $500 fine. And we have citizens who are trained and do look for violaters and issue those tickets. But, none of them are armed.
 
He said he carries a gun in case things get out of hand. I think the jury after seeing the videos saw he instigated the problem in the first place which got out of hand and escalated to the shooting that didn't have to happen. Evidently the jury didn't see stand your ground or self defense justified the shooting.

When I got my CCL the instructor said if you didn't go into bad areas or situations before then you definitely should not go into them now. If you can avoid them then do so.

This guy is about to find out what getting out of hand is all about in his new surroundings.
 
Two young men decided to pass on the wits angle during a conflict and go hands on as they lost their cool; and both conflicts ended in the death of those who couldn't keep their hands to themselves.

There just might be a lesson in there........

"My statement of Hands on is a fact."

While the penalty for battery can be rather severe it is not a death sentence.
Neither of the deceased should be.

So the two of you can discuss this matter on level ground, FL law allows use of deadly force against a forcible felony, which includes aggravated assault and aggravated battery.

There must be intent to commit a felony or use of a deadly weapon to reach aggravated assault level. Similarly, aggravated batter requires intentionally or knowingly causing grave bodily harm or the use of a deadly weapon. It is, in the case of the parking spot incident, difficult to prove such intent by the "pusher," nor did he use a deadly weapon.

Otherwise, simple assault or battery is a "misdemeanor" and not defensible with deadly force. "Hands on" itself is not justification for deadly force in FL.

The fall back of "reasonably feared for his life" did not stand the jury test.

Continue with your discussion.
 

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