Victory data base

[tenntex32]

Yep. Something is wrong somewhere. The dealer is highly reputable (we've done business before) and will give me my money back in a heartbeat if it turns out not to be a 'real' Victory or has had its serial number altered or is otherwise fraudulent in any way (e.g., refinished, lanyard ring added, etc.).

Or it might just be that he read the serial number wrong. I'll find out later today.

Keep us updated, and like I said if it happens to be a pre-Victory and is in original factory condition I would accept it as they made fewer of them. Then I would continue looking for an actual V-prefix Victory as there are plenty of them out there.

That is assuming you could live with having both.

Dale

 

[tenntex32]

By the way, S&W had a policy against refinishing Victorys in a different finish. But I do not believe they flat out refused to work on them post-war.

I found this digging through some of my old Victory stuff and it seems to support your statement with regarding to S&W only refusing to refinish them. Looks like they also didn't want to refinish their Model 28, and a few others as well.

This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!

Dale

 

[Absalom]

......
This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!

Yep. That’s what I was remembering. I think I still have that snip somewhere. But I’m not the owner. Lee posted it a few years ago.

 

[TTSH]

Keep us updated, and like I said if it happens to be a pre-Victory and is in original factory condition I would accept it as they made fewer of them. Then I would continue looking for an actual V-prefix Victory as there are plenty of them out there.

That is assuming you could live with having both.

Dale

As it turned out, the explanation is as simple as simple explanations get: The selling dealer wrote down the wrong serial number on my receipt. The correct serial number is V431991, not V931991 per my receipt.

That makes me feel a whole lot better.

Thank you gentlemen for helping!

 

[tenntex32]

As it turned out, the explanation is as simple as simple explanations get: The selling dealer wrote down the wrong serial number on my receipt. The correct serial number is V431991, not V931991 per my receipt.

That makes me feel a whole lot better.

Thank you gentlemen for helping!

You're welcome.

Now pay the picture tax!

Dale

 

[TTSH]

You're welcome.

Now pay the picture tax!

Dale

Oh, I will... just as soon as it is in my hands.

 

[Lady Smith]

I found this digging through some of my old Victory stuff and it seems to support your statement with regarding to S&W only refusing to refinish them. Looks like they also didn't want to refinish their Model 28, and a few others as well.

This may have been posted by a forum member, in this very thread somewhere, and possibly even by you, so my apologies if that is the case!

Dale

Hey Dale,

Maybe I’m wrong, but what I understand is that S&W don’t change the finish on Victories (turn black magic in nickel for example), not they don’t refinish them.

 

[Lady Smith]

Done.... Thanks for the prod.

Please, keep us updated

 

[grendelbean]

Please, keep us updated

Roy kindly gave his opinion the Navy Victory Model was indeed refinished at the factory in November 1961. This Victory was refinished for an individual collector, as has been previously suggested and pointed out. An advertisement of the time, provided by another member, shows S&W did refinish for individuals on a single-gun basis - for about $16.50. Victory Models were refinished in the original finish only, not changed to another kind of finish. All this knowledge from others in the forum and is respectfully appreciated. I begin to feel I am learning something about these great pieces of history.

 

[tenntex32]

Hey Dale,

Maybe I’m wrong, but what I understand is that S&W don’t change the finish on Victories (turn black magic in nickel for example), not they don’t refinish them.

It may have had something to do with them wanting to sell more new commercial revolvers after WWII versus making the many Victory models look more like a commercial example.

Then again, maybe they felt the courser finish of the Victory model was only suitable for refinishing only back in the original wartime style finish as grendelbean has referenced.

Maybe someone with access to internal S&W information/documents can clarify. I do remember someone stating that part of S&W's Victory revolver contract with the U.S. Government had a provision for them not to be sold as surplus back onto the civilian sales market as so not disrupt S&W's commercial sales which is what S&W felt happened after WWI with the many M1917 examples that "somehow" became available.

I would love to see more actual documentation with regards to the possible "no civilian surplus sales" provision in the S&W/U.S. Government Victory contract...…...assuming it's not folklore.

Dale

 

[tenntex32]

Roy kindly gave his opinion the Navy Victory Model was indeed refinished at the factory in November 1961. This Victory was refinished for an individual collector, as has been previously suggested and pointed out. An advertisement of the time, provided by another member, shows S&W did refinish for individuals on a single-gun basis - for about $16.50. Victory Models were refinished in the original finish only, not changed to another kind of finish. All this knowledge from others in the forum and is respectfully appreciated. I begin to feel I am learning something about these great pieces of history.

Thanks for the additional info. I can't help but wonder how many Victory examples S&W refinished that the current owners don't even know about?

I have looked at all of mine...…………...and zilch. Not that that's a very large sample size by any means.

Dale

 

[tenntex32]

grendelbean,

Have you posted more overall pics of your factory refinished Victory example yet? If yes can you tell me where?

I'm curious if the 1961 refinish is noticeably different than the wartime finish.

Thanks,
Dale

 

[Lady Smith]

Thanks for the additional info. I can't help but wonder how many Victory examples S&W refinished that the current owners don't even know about?

I have looked at all of mine...…………...and zilch. Not that that's a very large sample size by any means.

Dale

Well, something tells me now you have to keep an eye out for a factory refinished one to add to your collection don’t ya

 

[TTSH]

Speaking of S&W factory refinished, would the factory have replaced the wood stocks on Victory revolvers when they did that work?

The reason I ask is that my Victory sure looks like it might have been factory refinished, but the right side stock is "used & abused" to the max. Somebody carried it and bumped into a whole lot of doors and stuff.

 

[tenntex32]

Well, something tells me now you have to keep an eye out for a factory refinished one to add to your collection don’t ya

There is always "one more" to add.

 

[tenntex32]

Speaking of S&W factory refinished, would the factory have replaced the wood stocks on Victory revolvers when they did that work?

The reason I ask is that my Victory sure looks like it might have been factory refinished, but the right side stock is "used & abused" to the max. Somebody carried it and bumped into a whole lot of doors and stuff.

I guess if they still had the plain uncheckered/nonmedallioned stocks in inventory they could have, especially at the customer's request.

I would think that they might have serialized the new R/H stock as well, assuming the revolver was refinished before they quit serializing the stocks.

It is not uncommon to find one stock having more wear than the other depending upon whether or not the previous users(s) were predominantly right handed or left handed.

Maybe with your example a previous owner simply replaced the unserialized left side stock but thought twice about replacing the serialized right side stock? (Does the fit of the left side stock look proper enough to possibly be original to the revolver? I am assuming the right side stock is serialized matching.....)

Who knows, but maybe a SWHF search would turn up exactly what work was performed if it was factory reworked/refinished?

Dale

 

[grendelbean]

Factory Refinished Navy Victory Model from 1961

grendelbean,

Have you posted more overall pics of your factory refinished Victory example yet? If yes can you tell me where?

I'm curious if the 1961 refinish is noticeably different than the wartime finish.

Thanks,
Dale

Under the stocks, which appeared to never have been removed since installation, the finish was what appeared to be the classic "Black Magic" finish. Elsewhere, the finish showed typical wear. Here are five pictures to illustrate.

 

[Gabriel Possenti]

I wanted to get a Victory Model into your database. I'm not having much luck with pics, but can give this information:

1.) 4" barrel,

2.) 38 smith and wesson special CTG

3.) Serial number: V146061 next to the lanyard loop on the butt.

4.) On the other side of the lanyard loop on the butt is the small flaming bomb symbol. (No other marks like a "W." Just the bomb symbol).

5.) Other markings: A tiny flaming bomb symbol also appears behind the yoke.

The top left strap has no markings like GHD, U.S. Navy, U.S. property, or anything like that. It looks completely plain.

6.) Finish--it smooth like a blued finish, but not as dark. Parkerized finishes that I've seen on other arms aren't as smooth as this. I think it may be the black magic oxide finish

Would it be worth getting a factory letter on this gun?

I don't know if this helps with the database, but the right stock on the above gun has a matching serial number (V146061). The left grip does not have a number at all.

It's probably insignificant, but the number on the wood looks to have been stamped rather haphazardly. I'm guessing it was done by hand by someone who wasn't all that concerend with keeping the digits evenly spaced or on the same line.

 

[Absalom]

I don't know if this helps with the database, but the right stock on the above gun has a matching serial number (V146061). The left grip does not have a number at all.

It's probably insignificant, but the number on the wood looks to have been stamped rather haphazardly. I'm guessing it was done by hand by someone who wasn't all that concerend with keeping the digits evenly spaced or on the same line.

This is correct and indicates the stocks were original to the gun. Only the right panel was stamped. Stock numbers of this period are usually not lined up properly, and applied carelessly; nobody was going to see them once the gun left the factory, and future collectors likely did not figure in anyone’s priorities

 

[grendelbean]

Victory Model Post Factory Markings

Just purchased a Navy contract Victory Model with Post Factory Markiings on left frame "PROPERTY OF U.S. NAVY" (In two lines). There are traces of white paint in the letters.
This prompted me to casually ask myself "Why isn't this engraving filled with red paint?" After all, that was what I had most often seen or read about.
I wonder if it makes any sort of interesting minor detail whether such paint color makes, or once made, any sort of difference? Does anyone know or have a hunch? Not that it makes any difference of course, just a product of curiosity and time to pass in Covid-19 isolation.
I wondered if the red was used for guard weapons at the ammunition piers in Oakland. If the while was used on the dry goods loading jetty on Treasure Island.?
Or - did it just result from the Gunners Mate striker who was detailed to paint guns that day picked up a can of white paint instead of the nearby red...... (I fully realize that is the probable true story)
Just couldn't help asking if anyone had an info related to such markings on Navy revolvers? Thanks, you'all.