Sig P320 spontaneous discharges?

I'm confused. Are these allegations about the Sig P 320 pistols that have the older trigger assembly without the voluntary upgrade or newer pistols not subject to the voluntary upgrade? I'm not saying that this is the case, but even someone with "extensive firearms experience" can make mistakes and we all have a tendency to go into defensive mode and refuse to believe we are capable of causing an accident. I'll just have to see how this all shakes out.
 
vt_shooter said:
I didn't read the whole thing but it did say the pistol was purchased in 2016 - was that before the recall?
Click to expand...

Yes, that was August 2017, but it was not a formal recall, only a “voluntary upgrade”.

The plaintiff’s pistol did not receive that upgrade, as stated on pg. 2/3, under #7:

“Despite clear evidence of serious safety issues with the P320, as demonstrated by the Voluntary Upgrade Program and warranty modifications, SIG nevertheless continued to affirm the safety of the P320 as originally designed. This is the version that fired on, and hit, Guay without a trigger pull on January 20, 2020 simply when he moved the holster it was in.”
 
If I'm reading this right, the gun in question was purchased before Sig offered the voluntary upgrade and the owner did not upgrade his particular gun. The gun owner says that only about 20% of P320 owners upgraded their guns because it was voluntary and not a mandatory recall.

The gun owner got shot and alleges that the weapon fired inside a holster without him having touched the trigger, in the process sustaining some serious injuries.

The gun owner goes on to argue that SIG had a duty to make his gun safe whether or not he participated in the upgrade.

The gun owner says that Sig continued to make false public claims that the P320 was safe both before and after the upgrade, putting him and the rest of the world at risk.

Along the way citing a number of accidental discharges of both upgraded and non-upgraded P320s.

At least that is what I got out of it.
 
steelslaver said:
Once again a small percentage can make the rest look bad.
Bad gun owners
Bad hunters
Bad cops
Bad attorneys

Wife loves lawyer jokes (NOT)

How many lawyers does it take to shingle a roof?

6





If you slice them thin
Click to expand...
What's the worse part about three lawyers going over a 1000' cliff in a Cadillac?

The Cadillac comfortably seats six...

Seriously though, I have a P320 that was returned and fixed, but from reading down to this point I think it's OK... right?

It's my primary EDC, and I hate to take it out.
 
I have two P320s (“M17” versions), both of which were manufactured after the voluntary recall thing. I always try to take note of things other shooters say about firearms I am interested in, but unless I see the evidence myself the reports are not stored in the “firsthand-knowledge database.” :)

Based on what I know, I am not concerned about MY P320s. I feel like I can depend on them, unless they do something that indicates otherwise. So far, nothing like that observed.
 
okiegtrider said:
If I'm reading this right, the gun in question was purchased before Sig offered the voluntary upgrade and the owner did not upgrade his particular gun. The gun owner says that only about 20% of P320 owners upgraded their guns because it was voluntary and not a mandatory recall.
Click to expand...

Here's how that works for me.

Fred: "I'm suing BigAutoCompany (BAC) for that wreck that killed my wife"
Joe: "Wow! Was that when the wheel came off and she plunged oof the cliff."
Fred: "Yep, BAC knew that model had bad hubs".
Joe: "Errm, I got a recall for mine and took it in for the updated hubs. Didn't you get the recall notice?"
Fred, now shuffling his feet and avoiding eye contact: "Um yeah, sure."
Joe: "So why didn't you take it in and get it fixed."
Fred, bristling: "Well, you know how it is with BAC dealers, they're all thieves!"
Joe: "But the recall work was free!!"
Fred: "I gotta go."

All I could say on the jury for that would be "RIP Mrs Fred, otherwise nothing to see here."
 
LVSteve said:
Here's how that works for me.

Fred: "I'm suing BigAutoCompany (BAC) for that wreck that killed my wife"
Joe: "Wow! Was that when the wheel came off and she plunged oof the cliff."
Fred: "Yep, BAC knew that model had bad hubs".
Joe: "Errm, I got a recall for mine and took it in for the updated hubs. Didn't you get the recall notice?"
Fred, now shuffling his feet and avoiding eye contact: "Um yeah, sure."
Joe: "So why didn't you take it in and get it fixed."
Fred, bristling: "Well, you know how it is with BAC dealers, they're all thieves!"
Joe: "But the recall work was free!!"
Fred: "I gotta go."

All I could say on the jury for that would be "RIP Mrs Fred, otherwise nothing to see here."
Click to expand...
Except that SIG never recalled the pistol. They offered a "voluntary upgrade" which is WAYYYYYYYYYY different from an urgent safety recall-do not fire or carry this gun until returned to the factory recall. SIG scrupulously avoiding using the word "recall" and specifically stated that it would make the pistol "even more safe" without indicating in any way that there were instances of the gun going off without the trigger being touched. If this is in fact provable, this ranks up with the Pinto exploding gas tank fiasco.
LVSteve in the scenario you posted, I completely agree with your analysis and conclusion, but a careful reading of the allegations contained within the petition indicates, if proven, a lot more at work here-close to an actual cover up. If that is the case I hope SIG gets torn a new one, not for the mistake but for the coverup
 
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The original issue was a drop test problem. If it landed a certain way on the rear of the slide it would supposedly fire. Random discharge in the holster is different.

I wonder what holster was used? That could also be part of the issue.
 
David.Hylton said:
The original issue was a drop test problem. If it landed a certain way on the rear of the slide it would supposedly fire. Random discharge in the holster is different.

I wonder what holster was used? That could also be part of the issue.
Click to expand...

Based on the linked articles above, Sig has acknowledged that the P320 can fire without pulling the trigger "under certain conditions, including vibration." So, being dropped is not the only way for the guns to fire without pulling the trigger.
 
LVSteve, I'm on your side as far as the scenario you described goes. But I don't think it really fits this situation. If the gun owner here had ignored a true safety recall then got injured, that's pretty much on him.

But what the lawsuit alleges is that Sig did not do a recall at all but cheaped out and did a voluntary upgrade all the while telling customers that the gun is safe and the upgrade was just to make their already great product a little better.

This suit really brings back into question all the original concerns about the safety of the P320 and raises some serious questions about the conduct of the company in the representations they made to consumers.

My earlier too longish post was just me saying what I took from reading the petition. Whether I interpreted it right I dunno.
ne_nau.gif


I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't have a P320. And at the moment I'm glad.

Nonetheless, I think it is an interesting story that I'll be watching to see played out.
 
I've got a dog in this fight - picked it up last month. Still no chance to even load it (with live ammo) let along go the range due to covid restrictions. I have played around with it several times, using dummy rounds, and I can't get it to drop the striker, let alone 'spontaneously' discharge (on a dummy round). Don't get me started on the proper use of the term 'spontaneous'! ;)

I can't help but to think - with no proof or evidence - that there are forces at work in the background, here, that would love to see SIG put out of business. That would leave only two major US manufacturers, S&W and Ruger. Old Joe, I'm sure would love to see that. Wouldn't it be nice if a large US firearms company was bankrupted? I'm kidding, of course.

Back on topic, I'm very happy with mine and have no intention of getting rid of it. One of the videos showed the work SIG has done at preventing accidental discharges, although that work should have been done much earlier. I like it enough that I've ordered a compact module and a coupla 15-rd mags to use with that module.

8CxNjQD.jpg
 
I have seen a lot of frivolous lawsuits. Most of the ones against cops are of that type. I deal with low quality lawyers on a regular basis and it makes me angry. How is this for scary: I'm a prosecutor, and like many of my friends, just horrified at some of the low quality work (malpractice) I have seen from DEFENSE attorneys.

Based on long posts in settings comprised of very serious users of firearms - I'm not inclined to think this is frivolous. I am inclined to think SIG needs a serious schooling.
 
SIG (the USA company, not the old Swiss-German gun maker) has had lawsuits over guns for a while now. Going on memory: The NJSP back in 2016 or thereabouts had constant failures with their P229 elites. It turned out that SIG had sent them the wrong model after NJSP approved the P229 Legacy, not the Elite. SIG did a bait and switch on them. SIG then sent the correct models, and something like 20 percent of them had to be sent back for being complete lemons. NJSP eventually sued SIG for the cost of the defective guns and the holsters. They went GLOCK.

One of the the Nordic countries sued SIG some years ago, for a similar situation as the NJSP. Basically, defective guns that SIG could not improve on.

The last P220's I owned (brand new) would occasionally fail to eject on factory 230 gr. fmj. Couldn't be trusted for defensive carry.

The US .gov had problems with the new P320 firing upon being dropped and ejecting live rounds shortly after being accepted by the US military to replace the M9.

Now it appears that the P320's will spontaneously fire while sitting in your holster due to vibrations.

SIG still claims in one of those linked stories that 'the guns are still safe even though they may fire due to vibrations'.

We also know that SIG'S CEO had a warrant for his arrest in Germany for breaking arms sales laws in Germany.


That company is being run by immoral people and should be bought out by a real gun maker.
 
Sig has been kicked around ever since they got the gov't contract. I hear all kinds of negatives from Glock fanboys. Glocks have had their problems over the years, but most have never made the rounds like Sig. I still see old rumors spouted off by those who have never owned or even fired a Sig striker fired pistol. I think it is pretty easy for an attorney to lead a jury around by the nose when the case involves something as technical as a firearm, especially when the complainant has had an injury. Anyone who owned a Sig P320 and never took advantage of the free upgrade...well that is on them. I suppose this claim of spontaneous firing, is possible and I'll see how it washes out. In the mean time, I'll continue to carry probably the most popular striker fired pistol currently on the market, my Sig P365. I even carry it while driving rough dirt roads in my pickup...Oh my!!!!! In the late 1800's anybody who carried 6 rounds in their Colt Peacemaker and took a round because of it was considered pretty stupid. Too bad they didn't have all these attorneys to sue Colt. Oh, yeah, back then the jury would have probably laughed at the attorney and the complainant.
 
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Back in October of last year a friend of mine was shooting his 320 X5 during a ISSA match. He had just finished the 2nd round in the third stage and his hands were in the low surrender position when his pistol discharged while holstered. The round hit a knife in his pocket and deflected enough that it did not strike him. Tore his pants pocket and ruined the knife but no other injuries to himself or anybody else. I was right behind him when it happened along with another friend who was scoring and we both saw the incident so this isn't a second hand report.
When he called Sig, they wanted it back immediately and he sent it back. He found out that there have been more than a few cases of a discharge with the 320 series when they were holstered and the pistol wasn't being handled. His pistol was only a few months old, new enough that it was made after the recall for the supposed drop problem. The pistol was completely stock with no upgrades and he had about 1K through it at the time.
Sig offered to send him a new 320 X5 but he opted out and had them send him a 220 instead. He told me he just wasn't confident with the pistol after he found out about some of the other instances of unintentional discharges associated with the 320 series.
I don't think this is about trying to "get Sig", it's a real problem. I own several Sigs and have for many years and have always been impressed with their reliability and accuracy. After witnessing what happened that day with his 320 X5, I'd be hesitant to purchase or carry one of the 320 series.
 
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My SIG 320-M17

I bought the M17 over a year ago at Bass Pro because I like to have a copy of the US military firearm. The gun has a thumb safety as required by the Army. I wonder if the thumb safety controls the AD problem.

I had a goofy experience with SIG concerning the removable plate on the slide that enables red dot sights to be mounted. I disassembled the gun preparatory to remove the plate. The screws(2) which secure the plate are only accessed from the underside of the slide. One screw is blocked by the extractor. I found no mention of this in the manual and emailed SIG. They agreed with me and said only a qualified gunsmith could do it for me. They also flatly refused to name even one gunsmith qualified. I sent it to Grayguns and paid them $50. to do it for me. I like the gun but will never buy another SIG.
 
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