First time loading .223

[AlHunt]

Having only loaded 5.56/223 for a year or two, I can't add much to what's been offered but I will say I've had my share of problems with primer pockets.

I got a RCBS primer pocket swager, swaged a thousand cases and set about priming them only to find the formerly crimped pockets were hit or miss on whether they'd take a primer. Don't know why, but I went back through and chamfered all the military stuff.

If you're going to swage, I'd suggest doing a few and seeing if they'll seat one of your irreplaceable primers.

EDIT: In fact, I might even go so far as to save some spent primers and seat those until I was satisfied I wasn't going to crush any new primers.

 

[tom2]

I tried reloading .223 one time for a Ruger bolt gun. My results were only mediocre and had difficulty getting accuracy hardly equal to the factory stuff. But then again, it was a time when the cost of factory ammo was not a backbreaker. And my volume of ammo usage with that rifle was not all that great. So I set it aside and stuck to the boxed stuff. Good luck to you. I had notably better results with reloading bigger carts.

 

[rockquarry]

Having only loaded 5.56/223 for a year or two, I can't add much to what's been offered but I will say I've had my share of problems with primer pockets.

I got a RCBS primer pocket swager, swaged a thousand cases and set about priming them only to find the formerly crimped pockets were hit or miss on whether they'd take a primer. Don't know why, but I went back through and chamfered all the military stuff.

If you're going to swage, I'd suggest doing a few and seeing if they'll seat one of your irreplaceable primers.

Most, maybe all complaints about the RCBS primer pocket swager not removing the crimp properly has to do with adjustment. This is critical. Takes some trial and error work, but once set right, it never has to be adjusted again. I'm far from an expert, but I don't think you can overdo crimp removal or damage/ enlarge a primer pocket. At least, that's been my experience.

My RCBS primer pocket swager is probably from the '60s. I'll assume the newer ones are the same.

 

[Dahak]

So let me introduce a bit of thread drift here.

I've got the mechanics of case prep down and hate crimped brass enough to prove it. I own 3 manuals and know where the bullet and powder manufacturer's sites are to get load data.

What are the classic combinations that I need to try out for my M&P Sport II?

To compare with 9mm - a reloader has to have tried Titegroup, Unique, and W231 in the 115/124/147 bullets to have a well-rounded experience. Let's operate under the false assumption that I can get whatever I want - what powders and bullet weights do I need to try? Currently I have 55 FMJ and Ramshot TAC. Varget is on my list for powder to buy as soon as I see it. 62 grain FMJ is in my shopping cart pending responses to this thread. What else do I need to have tried to have well rounded base of experience in 223/5.56 reloading?

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

So let me introduce a bit of thread drift here.

I've got the mechanics of case prep down and hate crimped brass enough to prove it. I own 3 manuals and know where the bullet and powder manufacturer's sites are to get load data.

What are the classic combinations that I need to try out for my M&P Sport II?

To compare with 9mm - a reloader has to have tried Titegroup, Unique, and W231 in the 115/124/147 bullets to have a well-rounded experience. Let's operate under the false assumption that I can get whatever I want - what powders and bullet weights do I need to try? Currently I have 55 FMJ and Ramshot TAC. Varget is on my list for powder to buy as soon as I see it. 62 grain FMJ is in my shopping cart pending responses to this thread. What else do I need to have tried to have well rounded base of experience in 223/5.56 reloading?

I would say that for 55 gr bullets I bought 3 powders to experiment with to see if I could pick a clear winner. I've used Ramshot TAC, Ramshot X-Terminator, and H335. After testing lots of loads, I can say that I don't see one bit of difference. They all have similar load data, and they all have comparable velocities and accuracy. So if you're thinking about another powder, I think Varget is a great place to start.

I wish I had some, but it's been unobtainable for months now. I understand it's very versatile for a number of rifle calibers. Like you, I'm going to get some if and when it becomes available.

The only 62 grain bullets I've shot are factory hollow points that I keep around for defense rounds, so I can't help you with powder choices there. Good luck with finding components. I hope this ends soon.

 

[jjfitch]

Easy-Peasy....

So let me introduce a bit of thread drift here.

I've got the mechanics of case prep down and hate crimped brass enough to prove it. I own 3 manuals and know where the bullet and powder manufacturer's sites are to get load data.

What are the classic combinations that I need to try out for my M&P Sport II?

To compare with 9mm - a reloader has to have tried Titegroup, Unique, and W231 in the 115/124/147 bullets to have a well-rounded experience. Let's operate under the false assumption that I can get whatever I want - what powders and bullet weights do I need to try? Currently I have 55 FMJ and Ramshot TAC. Varget is on my list for powder to buy as soon as I see it. 62 grain FMJ is in my shopping cart pending responses to this thread. What else do I need to have tried to have well rounded base of experience in 223/5.56 reloading?

*********************************************

A classic .223 load:

Powder: W748 your reloading manual will give specific load data for powder charge and col!
Bullet: 55 grain
COL: 2.225-2.50
SRP: Some people will say to use the harder primers for AR's I've not experienced issues with standard SRP from CCI/ Winchester or Federal.

I consider case preparation and reloading as two separate operations.

Years ago like in the above post I had to "tweak" adjustment to get consistent primer pockets. Not all cases start out with the same crimp!

SB dies are not normally required but once again some tweaking might be required with standard dies since some chambers are TIGHT. Even .001-.002 at the base can cause head space issues! I found I have to turn my die in an additional 1/4 turn after the die kisses the shell holder. Seems to be a carbide die thing!!! Be sure to have a stuck case removal too handy!

After resizing I trim to the minimum and find my brass seems to stay below max for 5-6 loadings but I still run all brass through my trimmer tool just in case! Inspection here finds split case necks!

As mentioned above "bumping the shoulder back" and "bullet jump" can be addressed as need arises.

Crimping may or may not contribute to accuracy in your gun.

At 74 and with nerve damage I no longer compete but my personal "smiles" come with banging 8-10 inch steel at 200 yards with aperture sights!

 

[2ndtimer]

So let me introduce a bit of thread drift here.

I've got the mechanics of case prep down and hate crimped brass enough to prove it. I own 3 manuals and know where the bullet and powder manufacturer's sites are to get load data.

What are the classic combinations that I need to try out for my M&P Sport II?

To compare with 9mm - a reloader has to have tried Titegroup, Unique, and W231 in the 115/124/147 bullets to have a well-rounded experience. Let's operate under the false assumption that I can get whatever I want - what powders and bullet weights do I need to try? Currently I have 55 FMJ and Ramshot TAC. Varget is on my list for powder to buy as soon as I see it. 62 grain FMJ is in my shopping cart pending responses to this thread. What else do I need to have tried to have well rounded base of experience in 223/5.56 reloading?

Well, you already have my favorite powder. I am not that big a fan of Varget, but have had good results with IMR-8208XBR, Accurate 2230, 2015 and 2460. I plan to try some Accurate 2520 once powder becomes more available.
As for other bullets, you really should try some 69 gr match bullets from Sierra or Nosler. Not sure your 1in 9" twist will stabilize the 75 or 77 gr BTHP Match bullets. My favorite all purpose bullet is the 62 gr BTHP from Hornady that is only available in bulk from MidSouth Shooters Supply. You might also be pleasantly surprised with accuracy and effectiveness on small varmints of the 40 and 50 gr plastic tipped bullets from Hornady and Nosler.
I also recommend a primer pocket swage gage to measure your primer pockets to determine in they will accept a new primer without swaging or reaming, as well as determining if a primer pocket has expanded to the point of leaking, which case should be discarded or recycled as scrap brass.

Swage Gage (R) Small Primer Pocket Gauge

 

[kbm6893]

As far as removing crimp in primer pockets, I have the Frankfort Arsenal Case Prep Center and bought a crimp removal attachment for it. All of my brass is mixed range pick ups. I put every piece through the crimp removal attachment. If it doesn't need crimp removal it doesn't cut anything so I know I'm good to go. I'm just making paper punching ammo and I've loaded probably 1000 with no problems. I do use a Lee factory crimp die even though I've been told it's not really necessary. Doesn't add any real time to the process since I only load 50 rounds or so at a time.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Having only loaded 5.56/223 for a year or two, I can't add much to what's been offered but I will say I've had my share of problems with primer pockets.

I got a RCBS primer pocket swager, swaged a thousand cases and set about priming them only to find the formerly crimped pockets were hit or miss on whether they'd take a primer. Don't know why, but I went back through and chamfered all the military stuff.

If you're going to swage, I'd suggest doing a few and seeing if they'll seat one of your irreplaceable primers.

EDIT: In fact, I might even go so far as to save some spent primers and seat those until I was satisfied I wasn't going to crush any new primers.

I never found my RCBS swager to work very well either. I went to a reamer bit and adj speed drill. I don't think my swager has been used in 5 years.

 

[bearfoot]

also want to start reloading the 223 rem. it just seems scarce is the word. thank all for their info. great thread.

 

[AlHunt]

Most, maybe all complaints about the RCBS primer pocket swager not removing the crimp properly has to do with adjustment. This is critical. Takes some trial and error work, but once set right, it never has to be adjusted again. I'm far from an expert, but I don't think you can overdo crimp removal or damage/ enlarge a primer pocket. At least, that's been my experience.

My RCBS primer pocket swager is probably from the '60s. I'll assume the newer ones are the same.

As I recall, there wasn't really any adjustment. Just set it up, bottom it out and done. I'm shortly going to start on a couple thousand more so I'll be revisiting the issue.

 

[LostintheOzone]

As I recall, there wasn't really any adjustment. Just set it up, bottom it out and done. I'm shortly going to start on a couple thousand more so I'll be revisiting the issue.

No adjustment on that one.

I think the problem may be the brass returns to it's original size to some degree. Just a theory.

 

[rockquarry]

As I recall, there wasn't really any adjustment. Just set it up, bottom it out and done. I'm shortly going to start on a couple thousand more so I'll be revisiting the issue.

As with the degree of crimp on a loaded cartridge, no standard exists. Light, moderate, and heavy crimp means different things to different people.

Wit the RCBS primer pocket swager, there are different degrees of "bottoming out". As I recall, I found the first "bottoming out" (and maybe the second or third) wasn't sufficient to remove the crimp. Whether the "spring" in a press has anything to do with this, I don't know but would suspect it might.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

As I recall, there wasn't really any adjustment. Just set it up, bottom it out and done. I'm shortly going to start on a couple thousand more so I'll be revisiting the issue.

My experience as well. I've gotten to the point that if the primer pockets have crimps, I've thought about just tossing them. It's a hassle swaging pockets.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If I threw away every .223 case I got that had a crimped primer pocket I'd have nothing left to speak of.

The overwhelming majority of the used/fired brass I've been able to find locally has crimped primer pockets.

That's good in a way because then, at least, I know they're once fired brass.

You won't have to un-crimp primer pockets as often if you use a brass catcher to save your work.

Length trimming, that's seems to be another story.

.

On the subject of crimping the bullet, I loaded some dummy rounds (no primer or powder) when I first started loading for the ARs, to do some tests with them.

Rounds with no crimp that were chambered from the magazine, & ejected, either had the bullet slightly pushed into the case (shorter COAL") or the bullet was out farther (longer COAL") than before chambering.

The round being force up the ramp & into the chamber would either push the bullet into the case farther, or, having been slammed into the chamber & stopped abruptly show bullet creep (jump crimp).

By reducing the diameter of the expander ball on the sizer die a few thousandths & crimping them with Lee's Factory Crimp (collet crimp) die those issues were eliminated when the same test was repeated in my AR.

.

 

[zeke]

While straying a bit from the ordinary, the only time am expanding 223 necks is when the brass needs trimmed. Even then use a neck sizer afterward to squeeze it back down. Yes the case mouths need chamfered. The bullets are seated with Redding comp seater to keep em straight with an increased interference fit. A very light LFC is used to ensure no case mouth irregularity, but no real crimp applied. There are certainly other ways of doing things, and a good comp seater costs a not inconsiderable amount of coin.

BLUEDOT37 brings up the excellent point of using dummy rounds for testing your hand loading procedure, and that bullet pull can also affect your rifle rounds.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

You don't need or want small base full-length resizing die. You also don't need to crimp, but if you do, use the Lee FCD.

If you buy new brass, you can just prime-powder-bullet-shoot. If you use range pickup, your going to need to resize-trim-chamfer-ream/swage primer pockets. Regarding primer pockets, you only need to remove/reform a very small amount of brass at the lip of the pocket. Do not use the Lyman pocket tool as it is a horrible design. Btw, when I say "small" - I mean small - very little brass is deformed to stake in the primer.

I don't like CFE223 as it is THE most temperature sensitive powder you can buy (seriously - there's none worse) so don't be surprised if your winter loads are slow now and way hot in summer.

An interesting lube you can try for cheap is Ideal Wire Glide pulling lube. The stuff is water based, dries without a sticky film, and is $8.95 for a quart. Use it on a roll pad. No cleanup required. Just remember that it is water, so you should spray out your resizing die once a year to prevent rust.

And that Sir....Is your opinion.....We have ours too.

 

[BillBro]

I'm just the opposite, I started out loading 5.56 ammo and then moved to pistol calibers, and in the 5 or so short years I've been reloading I've loaded a few tens of thousands of 5.56 rounds and have never used a small base die. My first die set was the Lee deluxe 4 die set and thinking I wanted something a step up bought a Forster full length sizing die and a Forster bullet seating die with the micrometer adj, I use the Lee dies more than the "better" ones. Yeah the Forsters are fine but the Lee dies make great ammo too and are way less fiddly.
I never heard of a small base die until a year or two into reloading and never had a single issue, one of those ignorance is bliss things I guess.

Just read as much as you can stand about reloading quality ammo, read about the basics, study the basics and then apply the basics. Keep it simple and dont get lost in the marketing.

 

[HorizontalMike]

I have found that reloading .223/5.56 brass can sometimes be tricky. I have been finding brass that was bulged at the very base of the cartridge, making impossible to properly load into the chamber gauge. The solution I found was/is the Redding Competition Shellholder Set. It saves your brass after firing a hot load, AND it allows you to reload someone else's fired brass by resizing the chamber head space completely to the base of the brass.

The Redding Compeition Shellholder Kit #10 consists of five shellholders in varying heights with increments of .002". Allows you to increase or decrease the case to chamber headspace without adjusting the dies. Storage box included.

 

[scattershot]

A lot of good information here, so I'll only add a couple of things to watch out for. First, all military cases and some civilian have a crimped in primer pocket.you will need to remove that before you can seat a new primer. There are both simple and complex tools to do that, but you only have to do it once. The other thing I would mention is to use lube sparingly, especially around the neck and shoulder. Too much lube in thise areas can result in oil dents in tha shoulder of the case. They don't really hurt anything, and will ne removed on firing the round, but they are unsightly, so might as well start off right to begin with.

Good luck!