Your Favorite 38 Spl +P 158 gr lead load

[crstrode]

Yesterday I made up a bunch of 148 grain plated double ended wadcutters from Rainier (now defunct). I load them with about 4.2 grains of Unique and seat them flush. The chrono says these are running around 800FPS from a 1-7/8 snubby..

 

[epj]

Haven't had the chance to try them yet, but I recently loaded a bunch of 160gr RNFP lead in 38 cases with 5.5 gr of 231/HP38. Some data sugg sets these are a tad stout, others not so much. Loaded for use in guns chambered for .357 or for+P.

 

[ddixie884]

That does sound a little stiff for .38spl guns

Haven't had the chance to try them yet, but I recently loaded a bunch of 160gr RNFP lead in 38 cases with 5.5 gr of 231/HP38. Some data sugg sets these are a tad stout, others not so much. Loaded for use in guns chambered for .357 or for+P.

I'm sure it will be alright in heavy framed .38s and in .357s. Let us know how this turns out for you. I'm waiting with bated breath. My 15-3 is my most used side arm...........

 

[smoothshooter]

Lots of variables here Ed, your powder is probably ok. Different
bullet, charge weight, crimp?, primer and your mod 49 has a
1 7/8" barrel and the K frame mod 10 has a 2" barrel. All
loads that I have chronoed in a 2" K frame run faster than
the same load out of one of my J frames. Bullet seating
depth, cast or swaged, crimp can make a big difference. For
some reason some handloaders insist on taper crimping cast
bullets that have a substantial groove for a roll crimp. Is
your bullet plated? I just measured the barrel of my 37-2
and it's not even a full 1 7/8", more like 1 13/16". Don't
throw your old bottle of 231 away yet. The bottle of 231
used in these loads is older than yours. Maybe 231 just
keeps getting better as it ages. I might sprinkle a little in
my food and see if it works for me!

I taper crimp because consistency of case length is not critical.
Roll crimp tension can vary greatly with just a few thousandths change in case length.

 

[Benchrest1]

I use a copper plated 158 SWC with 3.2 grs of 231 for shooting steel.

 

[Wireman134]

Yes; looks like they didn't complete their work.

Don't hate me for this but maybe the industry thinks there is no need for speedy lead bullets as there is little factory lead ammo loaded to real max +P pressures. Also most factory defense loads use lighter jacketed projectiles.

 

[gwpercle]

I don't buy factory ammo because they don't load/sell what I want .
I cast lead bullets , use gas checks and drive them to the velocities I want .
That's why we cast and reload ...factories can do whatever they want ...
I'm not buying it .
Reload and cast bullets ...Become Master of your Ammo Supply .
Doing It puts a smile on your face !
Gary

 

[mikerjf]

I like that 5.4g Unique load from the Lyman 45th.

The Lyman 45th also lists an 11.0g max of 2400 for a similar velocity. That feels like a pretty solid load. I've tried 11.5g and that made me wonder if it was a good idea in a 38 (I was testing it in a 357).

 

[Daimler1989]

I load 5 grs of Vectan A1 with a 158 grs Speer SWC or SWCHP
938 ft/s from a 3" barrel (Model 13), 918 ft/s from a 4" barrel (Model 27), 935 ft/s from a 5" barrel (Model 27). Very accurate, but leaves a little bit of lead in the M27s...

regards from Germany
Ulrich

 

[smithra_66]

5 grains of Unique

Lyman 358439 Keith Hollowpoint, cast 20-1.

Explosive on water jugs.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I like that 5.4g Unique load from the Lyman 45th.

The Lyman 45th also lists an 11.0g max of 2400 for a similar velocity. That feels like a pretty solid load. I've tried 11.5g and that made me wonder if it was a good idea in a 38 (I was testing it in a 357).

In my M49 Steel J frame I tried 10 grs of 2400 powder
with a 158 Lswc bullet with a OAL of 1.48" and medium crimp
that crossed the chrony at an average of 5 shots at 835fps.
the high was at 865fps and the target "Group" was a blown shotgun pattern.
I logged this load as a load for a "K" frame.... I don't care what the manuals say.

 

[jimbo728]

4.8gr WW231, 850fps. been a favorite with all 158gr lead swc and lrn for decades 4 and6 inch Smiths.
Jim

 

[STORMINORMAN]

About 4.8gr of CFE-Pistol with almost ANY 158gr bullet works for me. Enough to expand an XTP or similar JHP, and still works well with most hard cast lead bullets without getting too crazy...

Cheers!

 

[rockquarry]

There is a definite need to get away from the "hard cast" Internet fad. Many don't seem to know what hard cast really is. Most of us don't need "hard cast" if we want decent accuracy and freedom from leading bores. Softer bullets that "fit" are almost always better.

 

[Wireman134]

There is a definite need to get away from the "hard cast" Internet fad. Many don't seem to know what hard cast really is. Most of us don't need "hard cast" if we want decent accuracy and freedom from leading bores. Softer bullets that "fit" are almost always better.

10-12 Bhn max is all you need to 35K psi. Boolit fit is most important. 98Pb/1Sn/1Sb water dropped gets it done.

 

[rockquarry]

10-12 Bhn max is all you need to 35K psi. Boolit fit is most important. 98Pb/1Sn/1Sb water dropped gets it done.

Yes, a 10-12 BHN bullet that's well-fitted is plenty adequate for most handgun cartridge uses. As for water dropping, it also has a place, but based on my experience with this process over many years, it's not necessary for for most shooters' needs.

With water dropping, you're getting into the realm of "hard cast" and beyond with it's attendant disadvantages unless you're dealing with high-pressure loads at high velocity. Even then it would be worth a comparison with softer bullets. With some areas of cast bullet "technology", there are no firm rules.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

I like to experiment with different powders in 38 special. The loads that I've found to be accurate with the Lee 358158 LSWC powder coated bullet are:
5.2 gr CFE Pistol
4.0 gr Trail Boss
3.6 gr Titegroup
5.4 gr Unique

Bullets are cast to BHN of 10-12. I have yet to chrono the loads yet. The Trail Boss load is clearly the softest shooting of the bunch.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Swaged (8 to 10?) vs. "cast" (12 to 14?) vs. "hard cast" @ 16 to 18...?

If one is loading for just one gun it can certainly make a difference: if you have multiple weapons of the same caliber sometimes a compromise maybe in order? Kind'a like loading different OALs for different 9mm pistols with different magazines and chambers... Sometimes the most finicky gun sets the standard?

Cheers!

P.S. I don't experience much leading (if any?) with coated bullets. The harder ones do penetrate better if that's desired (or a concern?)... Don't see a lot of copper fouling with plated bullets either: perhaps I'm just lucky that way?

 

[Kiwi cop]

For many years my "go to" .38 Special +P load was 10.5 gns H4227. The original powder before Winchester bought in to Hodgdon and decided to "streamline" the powders, replacing H4227 with ADI's AR2205, the version with the cooling coating required by the Australian military.

I have not tried the new H4227, although AR2205 was just not as good in my 6" 686 as H4227 had been.

My current +P load in the .38 Special is 4.2 gn Tightgroup. Not as good as the H4227 load but near to it.

 

[Biggfoot44]

All with either Speer LHP or commercial cast " Magma " .

Mild excellent accuracy
3.2 gr 231 ,700 fps 4 inch

Factory duplication of Std Vel
3.4gr 231

Current data varies , but at the time was top edge of std pressure , but not +P

4.5 gr Unique mid to upper 800's

Exceedes current ,but was max +P circa1980

5.3gr 231