Your Favorite 38 Spl +P 158 gr lead load

[Model1567]

Bigfoot,

What kind of velocities were you seeing with 5.3 gr. of W231?

 

[Forrest r]

You're going to find that the bullet selections you make will have huge effects on the velocities of the 38spl p+ loads you're testing.

Several years ago I did testing with a 2" bbl'd snubnosed 38spl revolver. I was more interested in how the powers performed over a wide range of bullets. So I used 10 different bullets for the testing. I coupled the 10 different bullets with 5 different powders and loaded up 5 loads of each powder/bullet combo.

The end result was that I had 50 test loads of each powder. I wrote down the velocities of the 5-shot strings and found the average velocity for that 5-shot sting. Then I took those 5-shot averages and added all 10 of them together and found the average of the 10 5-shot groups. Doing this gave me an idea of what +/- velocity to expect with a 158gr bullet and a p+ load for 5 different powders.

All bullets were cast with a 8/9bhn alloy and sized to .358". The single jacketed bullet was a 150gr jacketed hp home swaged out of 9mm cases and sized to .357".

4.4gr of bullseye
The 10 5-shot strings averaged 801fps
High 358156 hp gc swc 822
Low H&G #51 784

5.7gr BE-86
The 10 5-shot strings averaged 845fps
High Cramer # 26 863fps
Low 358431 (hb swc) 827fps

5.5gr unique
The 10 5-shot strings averaged 833fps
High Cramer #26 846fps
Low 358439 (hp swc) 814fps

11gr 2400
The 10 5-shot strings averaged 882fps
High jacketed hp 150gr 916fps
Low H&G #51 867fps

6.0gr power pistol
The 10 5-shot strings averaged 887fps
High Cramer #26 910fps
Low H&G # 51 859fps

A picture of 8 of the 10 bullets tested.

These 4 bullets consistently outperformed the others. Left to right:
Cramer #26 158gr (cramer's version of the lyman 358439 keith swc hp)
Mihec 148gr hbwc turned backwards
Lyman 358156 hp gc swc 152gr
How swaged 150gr jacked hp

Those 4 outperformed the rest because they had long bodies that sealed the cylinders/bbl extremely well. Or they had huge bullet bases/bottom drive bands that also were very efficient in sealing the cylinder/bbl better/faster than the other bullet designs. Simply put, they are more efficient than the small bottom drive band/bullet based bullets.

What I got out of that testing:
BE-86 pretty much mirrored unique's results in this test
The cramer #26 version of the lyman 358439 ran circles around the real lyman 358439.
The H&G #51 was consistently the worst performing on next to the worst performing bullets in the testing.

Powder selection is 1 thing, picking a good bullet design will have a huge effect on your 38spl p+ loads. Especially when using a short bbl.

 

[Wireman134]

Yes, a 10-12 BHN bullet that's well-fitted is plenty adequate for most handgun cartridge uses. As for water dropping, it also has a place, but based on my experience with this process over many years, it's not necessary for for most shooters' needs.

With water dropping, you're getting into the realm of "hard cast" and beyond with it's attendant disadvantages unless you're dealing with high-pressure loads at high velocity. Even then it would be worth a comparison with softer bullets. With some areas of cast bullet "technology", there are no firm rules.

Hard cast is not water dropping. The amount of Sn and Sb determine the Bhn. Pure Pb dropped in water will not make the boolit harder than air cooled. My custom blended alloy mixes Pb with Babbit alloy metals. Air cooled my alloy of 98% Pb, 1% Sn and 1% Sb will air cool to about 8 Bhn. The 1% Sb is the main hardening metal in my alloy. Water dropping with this low of Sb only hardens the boolit slightly more to 10-12 Bhn this is tested by me and confirmed. Water dropping allows me to stretch out my metals to get the hardness that works. Allowing me to cast more boolits of this hardness, perfect for up to 30K psi. loads. The firm rules are real. You just need to know them.

 

[Mule88]

I use 5 gn of Universal

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Inspired by this thread...? (I forgot it was about lead loads: sorry!)

Yesterday at the range: we shot 12 each of these offhand: using p!ated 158gr Berrys FPs loaded to 1.445" with a very mild LEE FCD crimp.

5.0gr Unique
5.2gr Longshot
6.2gr Accurate #5

@ 7+ yards all basically shot to point of aim in my Model 19-3 2 1/2". No chronograph, but the Longshot loads seemed a bit faster, a bit more recoil. I feel all would have been acceptable in my 442, but I didn't have it with me. So next time I'll try them with those same loads plus a couple other powders: 231, Bullseye & CFE-Pistol for a comparison.

Then we shot a dozen 357 Magnum cases with 7.2 gr Longshot: very mild for a 357 Magnum but noticably more sound, velocity and recoil. Went back to 10 yards, or so, and these also shot to the point of aim.

Cheers!

P.S. Cleaning the gun was a breeze compared to a box of LWCs...

 

[BillBro]

OK, I want to play too. Just bought 300 of the Rimrock bullets and have my LGS hunting for some powders, unique specifically. I have many of the powders already discused. This has been a great thread, thanks to all who have contributed good info.
Powders I already have are A5, A7, hs-6, silohuette,VN340,titegroup,cfe pistol, herco, 800x.

 

[zeke]

They claimed the electronic pressure numbers were different so it had to be downgraded to 20,000 but then they made a mistake in the SAAMI info and said that both were equal at 20,000 psi. It is the one set of data where they both agree. Just one more big lie. They forget what they told and tell you that you have a bad memory.........

The 38 special loads in Speer #8 were not pressure tested, as indicated by speer itself. Some just won't let it go and continue to try and use word association to say the loads were pressure tested, but they weren't. If someone wants 357 mag velocity's, they should get a 357 mag.

 

[jimbo728]

My +p favorite wih .38 lead has for decades 4.8gr 231. runs 650 in a 4inch.
Jim

 

[Nevada Ed]

About 4.8gr of CFE-Pistol with almost ANY 158gr bullet works for me. Enough to expand an XTP or similar JHP, and still works well with most hard cast lead bullets without getting too crazy...

Cheers!

In my 686 6", 4.8 gr of CFE will start out at 747fps.
a 38 case with 5.5 grs of CFE-p hits at POA doing 939fps.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

My +p favorite wih .38 lead has for decades 4.8gr 231. runs 650 in a 4inch.
Jim

That seems to be pretty weak for a +P to me.... What's your "regular" 38 Special 231 load and with what bullet weight?

Cheers!

 

[wagonman]

ArchAngelCD has done a lot of research and put in the leg work on high-performance 38spl loads with h-6 and the158gr swaged lswcgc, for years I was loaded with 110gr rem hp with hs-6 for home defense use my own testing found 7.0 gr of hs-6 and rimrock 158gc runs 910fps from my 4in mod-15, the penetration and expansion sold me on dumping the110gr. rem hp

 

[Goldstar225]

My .38 +P load is 6.0 grains of Power Pistol under a home cast RCBS 150 SWC (158 grains as cast). This load is taken from Alliants site. They rate it at 1037 FPS. From my 4" model 15 it chronographs at 1045 FPS. Alliant does not give a pressure reading for this load.

 

[Wireman134]

My .38 +P load is 7gr SR4756 under the GT 145gr. LSWCHP sized to .358". A firm taper crimp in bottom crimp grove. 1.520" OAL at about 950-1,000fps out of my M36-7.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My .38 +P load is 7gr SR4756 under the GT 145gr. LSWCHP sized to .358". A firm taper crimp in bottom crimp grove. 1.520" OAL at about 950-1,000fps out of my M36-7.

Not many of us are lucky enough to still have any SR powders let alone SR4756. My favorite SR powder was 4759 but of course not for the .38 Special in any form.

I wish I had known the SR powders were going to disappear but I just didn't realize what a loss they would be at the time.

 

[AzShooter]

I had a special mold made for me. It was 180 flat nose and I asked for the same bullet in a round nose for my revolver. It turned out to be 186 grains.

I worked up a load for USPSA competition to make Major and found 4.5 grains of Unique easily made Major. The biggest feature is that it shot 1 inch groups all day from a bench at 25 yards.