.455 HE2/ acp alternatives

[Oyeboteb]

Which is why I was looking for something for this particular revolver other than factory ACP.


I wish I could find a low-pressure factory load in either ACP or Auto Rim, but the only Auto Rim turning up in searches yet is Buffalo Bore, at a price that quickly pushes me into thinking about reloading anyway. And all ACP is standard or +P, not reduced P....

One has to load their own.

The .45 ACP Bullet of .452 ( maybe, if more often .451 in practice ) is much too small for your Cylinder Bores and Barrel Bore.

You need .455 Diameter Bullets, not 452.

.452 with Lead Bullets will give you Leading, poor accuracy, lowered FPS, lots of "Blow By" and be a mess...the Bullet may not even show any impress of Rifling at all.

Mine did not show any impress of rifling back in the early 1990s when I was trying off the shelf .45 ACP Hardball in it and recovering the Bullets...even if a Lead Bullet ma have some or some with skidding.

Hence - one has to expand .45 ACP Cases ( or .45 Auto Rim Cases ) to accept .455 Diameter Bullets, and also, to have a Crimp Die which will work on .455.

One has to Load one's own, since no one makes such a Cartridge.

 

[Oyeboteb]

I believe that the bullet for 455 Mk II was supposed to be .454, the same as 45 Colt. .002" is certainly not significant when talking lead bullets and should fire in a smaller barrel. I would almost certainly predict that during the war, these revolvers shot anything available, including ammo intended for the Model 1911, without any known problems I am aware of.-

The .455 Chambered Revolvers did not and could not chamber and fire .45 ACP...the .45 ACP Cartridge falls all the way in to the Cylinder Chamber and has nothing to seat against.

Same if trying to load and shoot .45 ACP in a Revolver chambered for .45 Colt.

If possibly some .45 ACP Revolvers could chamber and fire the .455 Cartridge, but they would not be able to do so reliably, since Head-Space would be so large the Firing Pin might not be able to strike the Primer.

There was no "shot anything available", unless what was available, was the correct Cartridge for the Revolver.

 

[LNBright]

Not to be negative, but that old revolver sounds like a money-pit!

Well, there's a reason why it wasn't a collectors' ideal to begin with, and didn't cost a prince's ransom... if I had been a M1917 as it had said, then I'd not have to worry about the caliber change, but... well, it's mine now, so.... Instead of blindly saying 'ACP will fit in it' and hoping it doesn't blow up in my face, I figured I'd learn how to proceed from here given it doesn't have a heat-treated cylinder. Yes, if I let it, it could become a money pit, if I were insistent on any particular path, instead of seeing what's reasonable.

But, it's not like reloading hadn't been a possibility for me anyway... I've other .45s, 9mm, 5.56 and .308, (not to mention .22 since those aren't reloading candidates), so, it would make sense for me to have a reloading press. I don't have to go so far as to have a progressive setup. If I was to set myself up a reloading station for my other .45s anyway, I believe the additional cost would just be a crimper.

 

[glowe]

The .455 Chambered Revolvers did not and could not chamber and fire .45 ACP...the .45 ACP Cartridge falls all the way in to the Cylinder Chamber and has nothing to seat against.

Same if trying to load and shoot .45 ACP in a Revolver chambered for .45 Colt.

If possibly some .45 ACP Revolvers could chamber and fire the .455 Cartridge, but they would not be able to do so reliably, since Head-Space would be so large the Firing Pin might not be able to strike the Primer.

There was no "shot anything available", unless what was available, was the correct Cartridge for the Revolver.

What is wrong with you? I shoot all these guns and know full well what I am stating. I am trying to help the OP with questions involving both 1917 and 455. Do not need to confuse the issue with off comments and have no time to argue with you!

 

[2152hq]

I'd use 45acp and 1/2Moon clips.
Reload the rounds to the low pressure low vel Match rounds of the Bullseyes Match shooters.

A very common load was 3.5gr of Bullseye powder and a 185/200gr lead SWC.
These loads only chugged along at around 700fps or a bit less.

Here's a decent article about loading for the Webley. It doesn't address the case issue you have but does use Bullseye powder.
Cases used here are 45Schofield shortened to 455 Webley MkII.
The reason for using thse is that the pressure/vel test gun is a TC Contender.
The PSI readings for the loads are in the 10K range. Certainly safe enough for a Webley or a MkII S&W.

The 455 MkII is just about the same case length as the 45acp, just a comparison.

There are velocity and psi pressure readings on the printouts listed in the article for different bullet weights.
You'll likely have to enlarge them to read it though.

You can get the PSI low enough by reloading.
Only some experimentation both at the reloading bench and on the range can bring out the best accuracy the gun and loads will allow.
Sometimes we only do all this for plinking fun anyway, at least that's what I do.
Minute of a Milk Jug at 20yrds,,then blame the sun, wind and anything else that comes to mind...

Ed Harris Cast 45 Cal Cast bullets: 455 Webley

 

[deadin]

If you decide to go with moon clips (1/2 or full) be aware that all clips are NOT equal. The latest batch of "new-made" clips I got are worthless.

They are not tempered like the older ones and will bend and deform when unloading the empties (using a standard "de-clipping" tool.)

 

[Muley Gil]

Where to start??? This thread includes discussion about both the 455 and the 1917 45 ACP. Thought it was obvious I was referring to the US Model 1917 using Model 1911 ammunition since the British had only a handful of Model 1911s, so the comment did not apply to the 455. The only thing needed to convert the 455 post-war was to shave off the rear of the cylinder and extractor star. I mentioned that I own and shoot all three options for the 455 and mentioned that one needed to convert 455 to shoot 45 ACP and re-bore for 45 Colt.

45 Auto-rim can be a pain to shoot in a revolver since the brass often falls through the extractor star because the rim is too small. Reloading is the only way to go in order to shoot 45 ACP in a converted 455, but the option of finding a Model 1917 cylinder and star assembly is a good one if one shows up. ebay has three 45 ACP cylinders, currently one blued and two stainless from a Model 625 but all expensive.

When I went to the po-leese academy back in the '70s, we were taught to raise the muzzle and then eject the empty rounds. Gravity helps the ejection process and the empty rounds don't get hung up on the star.

 

[StrawHat]

If you decide to go with moon clips (1/2 or full) be aware that all clips are NOT equal. The latest batch of "new-made" clips I got are worthless.

They are not tempered like the older ones and will bend and deform when unloading the empties (using a standard "de-clipping" tool.)

Which moon clips were those? I have always used and never had a problem with the moon clips from Ranch Products in Malinta, Ohio. They originated the modern moon clip.

Kevin

 

[deadin]

Which moon clips were those?

Now that I think on it, I don't think they were moons, rather half moons and I have no idea where they came from. Bought them at a gun show.
I still have enough early ones to keep me happy. I bought this batch because of price and as back-ups.....
Mea Culpa......

 

[gwpercle]

Which is why I was looking for something for this particular revolver other than factory ACP.


I wish I could find a low-pressure factory load in either ACP or Auto Rim, but the only Auto Rim turning up in searches yet is Buffalo Bore, at a price that quickly pushes me into thinking about reloading anyway. And all ACP is standard or +P, not reduced P....

A Lee hand press Kit , with primer seating tool , a set of Lee dies , comes with shell holder and powder scoop is in stock and available at Midway USA for total cost $106.00 . You still need brass , primers powder and bullets ... but the 45 acp/AR brass can be reloaded at least 25 - 30 times ...maybe more .
I reload all my handgun and 30-30 ammo on one and the little priming tool that comes with the Hand Press Kit works like a charm . You don't need to bolt it down and it's a real single stage press ... no whack-a-mole !
Gary

 

[Dave_n]

As far as the 265 grain "correct" bullet for the Webley is concerned, Jet Bullets in Alberta still makes them at a reasonable price, including postage (particularly as the $Can is quite a bit below the $US). I do all of my reloading for revolvers on single stage Lee presses that are quite elderly as that way, particularly for any in the 0.38 range (S&W or Special) I can see double loads and I do the same for 9 mm and Colt 0.45. Being well-retired I have the time to do this and can adjust the reloading schedule to fit with my range visits. Dave_n

 

[JMtoolman]

Does anyone know if Lee makes a crimp die for the .445 Webley.

 

[Muley Gil]

Does anyone know if Lee makes a crimp die for the .445 Webley.

You can shorten a .45 Colt crimp die. I THINK you can use a .45 Auto Rim crimp die as well.