Would you trust this P365?

[BC38]

I just want to clarify the universe of defects. There are essentially two types of defects. The first is defined as a Common Cause. Translated it refers to a defect that is inadvertently designed into the product. It could be a dimensional, material, manufacturing process, etc., that is shown on the detail drawings. Most manufacturers have a tough time admitting to common cause defects.

The second kind of defect is called Special Cause. Examples are parts purchased from suppliers that are out of specification like Springs with improper heat treat, castings with porosity, etc. Manufacturers love to blame their product defects on somebody else. They can sue them for the cost of recalls and production delays. Lose of reputation…..not so much.

There's a whole process called design verification (DV) that should be very strict and disciplined. Usually short cuts are taken because marketing is pushing production and release timing. What happens is the science experiment ends up on the customers back. I recall way to many internal fights over three variables: low cost, fast timing, and high quality. My response was "pick any two. You can't schedule invention and you can't compress time." Forgive my long sermon. Tom H.

Yup, one of the engineering axioms.
We can make it better, faster, cheaper - pick any two.

 

[sotexas]

I was hoping for some words of advice. I have been shooting recreationally for about 20 years but obtained a CCW permit more recently. A few months ago, I purchased a new Sig P365; after renting several guns, it was the one I thought I liked best. I have fired about 250 rounds though it. Today, I was firing it and the trigger went "dead" and it would no longer work. I am going to call Sig on Monday. When I search online, I see that I am not the first to have this issue; however, I know that the P365 is a very popular model and many are satisfied with it. Assuming they can fix this gun, would you still trust it for carry? Would you trust P365 at all? Thanks a lot.

After it was fixed I would run 300-600 rounds and if I had no issues I would carry it with no hesitation. Sorry you had to start out with an issue,

 

[Chief Wiggums]

Im not a fan , never have been. The brand is just not for me, I never could get comfortable w the feel, the vibe and I couldn't develop confidence. Id go to the G company before Sig...just my preference

 

[Tanners Owner]

I've been happy with my 365. It's been reliable and accurate. Has the shield plus come out when I bought my 365, I may have gone w/ the smith.

 

[lrrifleman]

rimfireshooter posted that he/she sent the P365 back on 12/22. We have not yet seen a post concerning it's resolution. Will we hear what was done?

Personally, I have 2 P365s, a 9mm and a 380. The 380 arrived with a kinda stripped optic cover screw, which Sig promptly loosened, provided a spare, and returned within a week and a half of my sending the slide back. The P365-380 is now ready for range testing.

Concerning the OP's original concern, my view would be to test the repaired pistol for preliminary reliability, then carry if it passes muster.

Ages ago I purchased a 27-2 used, and during a friendly plate match almost 10 years later, the extractor star separated from the ejector rod. I have no idea how many rounds had been fired through this revolver prior to the part failure. My 'smith repaired it, and it has worked for over 20 years.

A philosophical question concerning testing for reliability, how many rounds fired is enough? Remember, every time a part is exercised, that is one more movement towards the end of that part's lifespan! For those looking for an absolute guarantee of reliability, there are only two things that have an absolute guarantee: death and taxes!

 

[chief38]

Many times manufacturers will fix a gun and never disclose what the problem was. I don't know why, but they must have their reasons.

Mike,
I'd also like to mention that many times when a defective or malfunctioning gun is returned to the Factory for repair, they do multiple things, replace multiple parts and I'd bet at times they don't even know exactly what the problem was. ie: If you bring in a car because the A/C doesn't work and they replace the Compressor, the lines and the fan, they may not know what the exact issue was - sort of a shotgun approach. Yea - it works now but the exact issue lies somewhere in the mix of things they did. Same thing with guns. If they replace enough parts I guess their hoping the "shotgun approach" somehow replaced the part responsible for the issue. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. The sad part is I'd bet they have very few employees left that are capable of actually diagnosing the issue - that's the real talent!

 

[BC38]

Mike,
I'd also like to mention that many times when a defective or malfunctioning gun is returned to the Factory for repair, they do multiple things, replace multiple parts and I'd bet at times they don't even know exactly what the problem was. ie: If you bring in a car because the A/C doesn't work and they replace the Compressor, the lines and the fan, they may not know what the exact issue was - sort of a shotgun approach. Yea - it works now but the exact issue lies somewhere in the mix of things they did. Same thing with guns. If they replace enough parts I guess their hoping the "shotgun approach" somehow replaced the part responsible for the issue. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. The sad part is I'd bet they have very few employees left that are capable of actually diagnosing the issue - that's the real talent!

Sad but true. "Parts swapper" labor is a lot cheaper than REAL technicians who possess the actual knowledge and experience and skills to diagnose and fix a specific problem (a.k.a. trained armorers).

So most companies can and do hire 2 or 3 "parts swapper" types for the price of one knowledgeable skillful technician.

The result is that we end-users pay the price. We get back guns that were sent to the factory for repair, that have had multiple parts replaced, but that have NOT had the real cause of the failure diagnosed or repaired.

 

[rimfireshooter]

I am sorry for not getting back to you. I got married and then I had a lot of work come up so I didn't get it back to the range until recently. (I don't carry much so when I did I used an old Glock I have). They changed the trigger spring and the trigger pin. I put 4 more boxes through it (Remington 115 gr FMJ) and it shot without an issue.

rimfireshooter posted that he/she sent the P365 back on 12/22. We have not yet seen a post concerning it's resolution. Will we hear what was done?

Personally, I have 2 P365s, a 9mm and a 380. The 380 arrived with a kinda stripped optic cover screw, which Sig promptly loosened, provided a spare, and returned within a week and a half of my sending the slide back. The P365-380 is now ready for range testing.

Concerning the OP's original concern, my view would be to test the repaired pistol for preliminary reliability, then carry if it passes muster.

Ages ago I purchased a 27-2 used, and during a friendly plate match almost 10 years later, the extractor star separated from the ejector rod. I have no idea how many rounds had been fired through this revolver prior to the part failure. My 'smith repaired it, and it has worked for over 20 years.

A philosophical question concerning testing for reliability, how many rounds fired is enough? Remember, every time a part is exercised, that is one more movement towards the end of that part's lifespan! For those looking for an absolute guarantee of reliability, there are only two things that have an absolute guarantee: death and taxes!

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Recently bought a SIG 365 X Macro.
Have shot it about 200 times without a problem.
It shot the last time I pulled the trigger, I fully expect it to fire the next time I pull the trigger.
I like it so much I'm thinking of buying another one, probably a 365 X.

 

[DesertFox]

Happy here with both a P365 and P365 xmacro. In EDC rotation along with a G43x MOS. Well, at least during months when the threat is mostly 2 legged instead of 4 legged furry...

 

[Tanners Owner]

My buddy had a similar problem, turned out to be the trigger return bar spring. Super easy to replace. He bought several and gave me a few, so I am GTG if I ever have that problem

FWIW he had ~4500 rds thru his P365- right about the number where SIG says to replace the spring.

 

[oldiegoldie]

somewhat off topic, but a more substantial manual safety for the P365 is being manufactured by ArmoryCraft, very soon to be released. My P365's will be wearing them as soon as they are available. alot of complaints about the OEM manual safety.

 

[BE Mike]

somewhat off topic, but a more substantial manual safety for the P365 is being manufactured by ArmoryCraft, very soon to be released. My P365's will be wearing them as soon as they are available. alot of complaints about the OEM manual safety.

I always thought one of the beauties of these pistols, is that a manual safety is unnecessary. Just draw and shoot!

 

[BC38]

I always thought one of the beauties of these pistols, is that a manual safety is unnecessary. Just draw and shoot!

Ditto. One of the main reasons I chose one without a manual safety for myself. The long DA-like trigger eliminates the need for a manual safety IMO. Just like carrying a revolver with a lighter than average DA trigger.
In a high stress SD situation that's just "one less thing" as Forest would say...
JMO and YMMV.

 

[Shibadog]

Before I trust ANY weapon it has to be well proven with a LOT of rounds going through it with zero issues. If I get a failure in 250 rounds mixed ammo, I start over. Another failure in 250 and it's either a range gun only OR it's headed to a new home. I will not trust a piece that's failed to protect me or mine. I've got a couple J frames, a CZ RAMI and a a 938 that have proven tract records (all are well beyond 1 k with Zero issues. With the Sig of yours. Get it fixed by the factory and try another series of tests. Another failure and I'd dump it. Only YOU can decide what YOU trust.

 

[robrossk]

Glad to read that your problem may be solved (Post #68). Says you fired 200 flawless rounds. Well on your way to proving if fit for use by you. In the end only you can decide. I have had 2 P365's and now have a P365XL. All flawless and the XL is the best out of the box firearm I have fired.

 

[chief38]

I know many many guys with P365's in all sizes and configurations. I haven't personally seen one fail yet - - even during that first release when there were obvious issues! Not saying there weren't issues when they FIRST came on the market (I recognize that fact), but that was over 5 years ago and Sig jumped on the issues and had them redesigned and returned in a jiffy!

Remember, the Sig P365 was and is still a game changer in the CCW world. There have been many companies that came out with their own version of basically a very similar pistol and they are all known for accuracy, reliability and ease of use. One of my good friends owns a very busy gun shop and he sells a plethora of P365's. He tells me that in the last 4 years the P365 has been one of the best pistols they sell in his store. Their two store rental P365's have over 120,000 rounds (each) through them and he claims they still are 100% original! I have well over 5,500 rounds through mine - no issues at all.

I own many S&W Revolvers and as I have posted more than once here on this forum, two of them catastrophically failed. One (a M10) would lock up in DA every 3 - 5 pulls. After 3 attempts at fixing it, S&W replaced the gun. I also had another revolver, a M36 fail due to a broken trigger stud which rendered the gun useless. I will agree that revolvers FTF somewhat less than Auto Loaders do, but that margin has closed the gap for the most part over the last decade. Today's auto loaders, INCLUDING the P365 have become almost as reliable with a ton of advantages over revolvers. When you weigh the two - I think the A/L 's come out ahead now days.

 

[Marshal Tom]

Now, aren't you glad you asked?

 

[billj47]

365X and XL with 1000's of rounds and no problems. 5 P320's and not an issue with any of them. The first one did have the update back in 2017. I only buy used ones and look at them closely. I like the ones with a few hundred rounds through them. It amazes me the number of people who buy guns and then sell them a few months later. Must not have rented the model to see if they liked it. Then they are a bargain. So if you want I will give you a fair price for your broken-down gun.

 

[Miracle Man]

I know many many guys with P365's in all sizes and configurations. I haven't personally seen one fail yet - - even during that first release when there were obvious issues! Not saying there weren't issues when they FIRST came on the market (I recognize that fact), but that was over 5 years ago and Sig jumped on the issues and had them redesigned and returned in a jiffy!

Remember, the Sig P365 was and is still a game changer in the CCW world. There have been many companies that came out with their own version of basically a very similar pistol and they are all known for accuracy, reliability and ease of use. One of my good friends owns a very busy gun shop and he sells a plethora of P365's. He tells me that in the last 4 years the P365 has been one of the best pistols they sell in his store. Their two store rental P365's have over 120,000 rounds (each) through them and he claims they still are 100% original! I have well over 5,500 rounds through mine - no issues at all.

I own many S&W Revolvers and as I have posted more than once here on this forum, two of them catastrophically failed. One (a M10) would lock up in DA every 3 - 5 pulls. After 3 attempts at fixing it, S&W replaced the gun. I also had another revolver, a M36 fail due to a broken trigger stud which rendered the gun useless. I will agree that revolvers FTF somewhat less than Auto Loaders do, but that margin has closed the gap for the most part over the last decade. Today's auto loaders, INCLUDING the P365 have become almost as reliable with a ton of advantages over revolvers. When you weigh the two - I think the A/L 's come out ahead now days.

Yup

My EDC is a Sig P365 and I'm closing in on 500 zero issue rounds. Nothing at all, zero failures in any aspect. And I just love it. Very easy to control from any angle/shooting position. Just on and on.

Now does that mean it won't fail to feed the next time I go shooting? NO

Mechanical things fail, period. Does that mean it's junk or unreliable? NO If I had a nickel for every issue I've had shooting 1911's, I'd have a lot of Nickles. Many of those issues were cheap and worn out magazine related. Reloads with slide velocity leaning towards weak side etc.

Do I think 1911's are junk? NO

Try and eliminate all issues for sure. Shoot your EDC, a lot. Clean it well. Use your carry ammo, break in mags good and so on.

In summary if my P365 stovepipes a round tomorrow I'm not going to freak out! And throw it in the trash bin. Now if it did it consistently then that's another matter entirely.