Why would I want a hybrid car?

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My wife has a new Palisade, which I like a lot (V6). But I don’t like all the gizmos that try to think for you, because I always have to switch them all off when I start it up. If I could opt in, instead of out, I might tolerate them. I feel free when I get in my 2018 Sportage and I can just crank it up and go. Maybe I should drive that till the wheels fall off.
 
The big problem with cars today is the cost of repairs. Most anything minor will cost you a grand and anything significant will cost many thousands. I have a no idea what new engines and tranny's cost from the dealer but I know my heart skips a beat every time I have vehicle problem. Adding more expensive electronics to the vehicle adds more potential expensive repairs plus can you imagine breaking down in a small town and have the local mechanic try to fix your hybrid?
 
I would go with a Hybrid car. Works very efficiently for rail road locomotives, lots of ships, the huge "unit rig" dump trucks, oil drilling rigs. etc.

No drive train loss or its kinetic energy to fight while braking.
100% torque available at 0 rpm

Motor needs less reciprocating mass because it only has to produce a set amount of torque. It starts and generator kicks in and it then runs at constant peak efficiency rpm while battery deals with torque and rpm issues. No idling or accelerating or de accelerating.

Dynamic braking can be used to stop, putting power into you battery instead of just burning it off as brake pad friction. Dynamic braking can also be used slow vehicle going down hill and instead of burning fuel produce power for later use.

No transmission, just control the rpm of a electric motor and reverse is just changing polarity.
 
I would go with a Hybrid car. Works very efficiently for rail road locomotives, lots of ships, the huge "unit rig" dump trucks, oil drilling rigs. etc.

No drive train loss or its kinetic energy to fight while braking.
100% torque available at 0 rpm

Motor needs less reciprocating mass because it only has to produce a set amount of torque. It starts and generator kicks in and it then runs at constant peak efficiency rpm while battery deals with torque and rpm issues. No idling or accelerating or de accelerating.

Dynamic braking can be used to stop, putting power into you battery instead of just burning it off as brake pad friction. Dynamic braking can also be used slow vehicle going down hill and instead of burning fuel produce power for later use.

No transmission, just control the rpm of a electric motor and reverse is just changing polarity.
I need to look this up again (like before posting...) but I read that there are two types of hybrids- one where the motive power is provided by either the battery (in "normal" use) or by the engine, when the battery runs low, and the other, where the engine is used to generate electrical power to run the car and charge the battery when it runs low. (???)

Apparently the latter is used by some European manufacturers (BMW?) but most use the dual drive train system. The "all electric" system would seem the best to me as the engine could run at constant speed, which should provide the best efficiency (like highway driving vs stop-and-start in the city) but there must be a compelling argument for the other design as well.
 
With the 30 gallon tank that is a range of over 700 miles per tank.

I just can't see myself paying $150.00 to fill a tank.
My Prius holds 10 gallons. At the current $5.00 per gallon I can drive from Tacoma to Spokane, not have to look for a charging station or gas station AND drive back to Tacoma before refueling.....
 
The big problem with cars today is the cost of repairs. Most anything minor will cost you a grand and anything significant will cost many thousands. I have a no idea what new engines and tranny's cost from the dealer but I know my heart skips a beat every time I have vehicle problem. Adding more expensive electronics to the vehicle adds more potential expensive repairs plus can you imagine breaking down in a small town and have the local mechanic try to fix your hybrid?

Even factoring in the battery (warranteed between 100 and 150k miles depending on your state) the Prius has been widely considered the lowest maintenance cost vehicle out there, and that's saying nothing about the gas savings. If you're concerned about maintenance/repair costs, its probably your best option.
 
Apparently we can make gas (heating) from sewage as well (?) - and we will NEVER run out of that - but there has been little or no interest in it. And it can be created frmo biomass as well. Out here (Britsh Columbia) our gas supplier was offering biomass fuel "credits" but that's gone now, as far as I know, although there is some biogas production happening somewhere. I believe bio-diesel is available.

The cost of the infrastructure to create biogas from sewage is probably quite high, which is often the problem with alternative technologies, but given that the source materials are more than abundant, I'd think it would be worth seriously looking into.

Another "fuel" is hydrogen, and one are that is being seriously studied in the US & Canada is to replace diesel-electric trains with hydrogen-electric, which seems like a good application for this as long as the hydrogen creation is "green" - fixed transportation lines, easy to add another car to the train to transport the hydrogen, etc. For cars, no.

Both of these make sense to me to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels, but the current mantra seems to be to "electrify at all costs", which I'm not sure is wise as I'm leery of putting all our rgges in one basket.

My last paying job was V.P. Of Engineering for Plug Power (Plug). We designed and manufactured fuel cell systems. They used hydrogen for fuel. I can tell all that are interested that it is a serious challenge to keep hydrogen captured. After all, it is the lightest molecule on the planet. Think triple o-ring every fitting.

One has to ask what the electricity from the hydrogen fueled fuel cell is being used for? Is it to charge batteries that actually power the vehicle? I’m intrigued by efforts to actually use hydrogen as the primary fuel for spark ignition engines. One additional comment; hydrogen fuel cells produce water. Water freezes in cold ambients. As I stated earlier, regulations are really failed designs. Just a few considerations. There are many, many more.
 
...One has to ask what the electricity from the hydrogen fueled fuel cell is being used for? Is it to charge batteries that actually power the vehicle? I’m intrigued by efforts to actually use hydrogen as the primary fuel for spark ignition engines. One additional comment; hydrogen fuel cells produce water. Water freezes in cold ambients. As I stated earlier, regulations are really failed designs. Just a few considerations. There are many, many more.
The main interest, from what I've read, in both Canada & the US, is for railways, replacing diesel-electric engines with hydrogen-electric. This seems practical, since we are so dependent on the railways for transportation over huge distances, and transporting hydrogen supplies via rail would be relatively easy.

I'd have to try and find it now, but earlier this year I read an article on trials of hydrogen-electric locomotives being done in the Yukon. As I recall, the sub-heading was that they figured if they worked well up there, they'd work anywhere.

They tried Ballard Power Systems hydrogen fuel cell buses in Vancouver BC several years ago and it didn't work out, and I read earlier this year they were trying some sort of hydrogen-powered buses in Edmonton AB, but I haven't read anything since on how that's going. (Maybe for a good reason...)
 
My last paying job was V.P. Of Engineering for Plug Power (Plug). We designed and manufactured fuel cell systems. They used hydrogen for fuel. I can tell all that are interested that it is a serious challenge to keep hydrogen captured. After all, it is the lightest molecule on the planet. Think triple o-ring every fitting.

One has to ask what the electricity from the hydrogen fueled fuel cell is being used for? Is it to charge batteries that actually power the vehicle? I’m intrigued by efforts to actually use hydrogen as the primary fuel for spark ignition engines. One additional comment; hydrogen fuel cells produce water. Water freezes in cold ambients. As I stated earlier, regulations are really failed designs. Just a few considerations. There are many, many more.

Very good points.

Hydrogen is the densest fuel we know of (most BTUs per pound/kg/unit of mass).

HOWEVER, it is also VERY hard to store SAFELY, very explosive (battery fires PALE in comparison), and it is difficult to produce in mass quantities.

The best production process we have found, the last time I looked into it, is electrolysis of water - to separate H2O into hydrogen and oxygen gases. As the name implies electrolysis uses electricity (a LOT of electricity) to break down the water into the two gasses, and unfortunately, it takes more electrical energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen than what you get back when you burn the hydrogen.

So you get back less usable energy from the hydrogen than what you put into producing it. That makes it a losing proposition. You can't beat the law of entropy. There's no free lunch.

As a car nut and an engineer I did a research paper on this topic of alternative fuels for my chemistry final, back when I was in college. I'm interested enough in the topic that I still try to keep up with the latest in the field.

The only really practical "clean" (non-fossil fuel) alternatives I found were ethanol and biodiesel made from biomass WASTE (NOT made from corn or canola, or any other food crops). Converting our FOOD into FUEL is also another losing proposition IMO.

Brazil is a good example of how it can be made to work. They produce ethanol from sugar cane waste, and sugar beet waste biomass. Their vehicles are properly tuned (high compression and fuel and ignition systems tuned for burning ethanol) so they can actually make an ICE engine run quite well and quite efficiently on straight ethanol. No fossil fuel required

Unfortunately, here in the good ol' USA, all of our ethanol production is geared towards using GRAIN (food) to make ethanol - that then gets added to our gasoline. Since the ICE engines in our cars are optimized more for petro-fuels, rather than straight ethanol, and we are producing what ethanol ICE fuels we do use from grain, it is actually more expensive than producing petroleum-based fuels. So we (taxpayers) have to subsidize the production of ethanol from grain crops.

But the special interests (ethanol producers, and petro-chemical giants) like it that way, and God forbid we would even consider upsetting their very profitable applecart! Especially when the bought-and-paid-for swamp creatures, the ones who make our laws and regulations, continue to promote subsidies that favor those special interests.

Until that changes we aren't likely to follow the Brazilian example of producing cheap ethanol and biodiesel from waste biomass any time soon. We'll continue to FORCE the impractical solution of EV's instead.

Follow the money. Every time. All the time.
 
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uncle Joe wants us 2b energy free from other countries.....I mean they only use 25% more total energy and will help with climate change....plus put $$$$ in his pocket...????? why wouldnt you want 2 own one!!
 
Hydrogen is the densest fuel we know of (most BTUs per gallon/cubic foot/unit of measure).

I agree with most of your statement but not that part

Hydrogen has 6,500 BTU per gallon at 3000 psi

Heating Oil (diesel) has 138,690 BTUs per gallon. ...
Natural Gas has 33,000 BTUs per cubic foot at 3000psi. ...
Kerosene has 131,890 BTUs per gallon. ...
Propane has 91,500 BTUs per gallon. ...
Gasoline has 112,114–116,090 Btu/gal. ...

Liquid hydrogen does have the highest BTUs per LB BUT a that takes a massive amount of energy to liquefy

Gaseous hydrogen is liquefied by cooling it to below −253°C (−423°F). Once hydrogen is liquefied it can be stored at the liquefaction plant in large insulated tanks. It takes energy to liquefy hydrogen—using today's technology, liquefaction consumes more than 30% of the energy content of the hydrogen and is expensive.

So only with a heavily insulated tank of -423f liquid would that be correct.
 
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We are still several years away from our next Honda as our 2019 is purring like a kitten. We are giving serious consideration to a hybrid as they just seem to make good sense to us.

EV? No.
 
Let me see if I can offer anything of value here.

Basically these cars group into these main groups: ICE or Internal Combustion Engine, HEV or Hybrid Electric Vehicle, PHEV or Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle, or BEV or Battery Electric Vehicle.

The confusing thing is all the EV ones have a battery and a motor. Some add an ICE motor. So, what gives? Well, HEV is very similar to driving an ICE car. Just put gas in and go. The battery charges with regenerative braking and releases power to the motor when needed. Somewhere between 80k and 250k, I think you will notice a loss of power on hills or acceleration due to loss of cell power. The battery will need its cells replaced. Simple work, but depending on the battery construction, this maybe a bit complex from a tooling or know how perspective. It will cost some money. There will be daily savings in fuel economy, if you keep your foot out of it.

A PHEV might be a great retirement car. You plug them in and the run on pure EV or battery mode for like 50mi before the ICE starts. Then the run like a hybrid. I find I could not use the ICE most days as long as I keep it charged.

Then there is the BEV. This is what is really on the news. This is the hot potato. The government and automakers are all in on this technology. The transition from an ICE world to a BEV world is going to be carrot and stick. There are lots of carrots being handed out right now to go all in on launching BEV vehicles. These add next level regenerative braking where the cars are mostly driven without the brake pedal. Without government mandated noise makers, they would be silent. Things like watching a movie while your wife is in the mall for 3hrs is easy. What is hard is jumping in the car for a quick Ohio to Arkansas trip. Any trip over 200mi in a single day will take some stop planning. You need to stop at a charger for 30-60 min every 200mi or so. There are chargers out there with your plug. They likely aren’t in places that entertain you for 30-60 min. Some are. Some are not your plug. Some are broken and nobody told your app. On the maintenance side, cell life may be a thing. It is just too new to know. The motors are long cycle electric motors at this time. 250k mi is no big deal. Of course, after round 1, every BEV maker will be seeking to cut cost….will motor reliability suffer? Sounds pretty good. Well, the bad comes in the charger. You can charge off 110V, but 220V or 480V would be much better. Actually a 480V supercharger in your garage would be best…..I don’t have 480V in my garage! 220V chargers work for now. Additionally, these cars are pricey now, like $70k to $150k. In a nutshell, these are high risk, reasonable compromise investments today.

In a few years, recognize 3 major gaps in this EV now mantra. First, a lot less gas is going to get sold. People will be let go, stores closed, gas prices swinging up and down based on store closings, refineries over/under producing. On the other hand, our power grid is near failing in the coastal states where BEV’s are really being pushed. How will the increased demand be met? Right now it seems like states are trying to limit your ability to charge your vehicle. There is more to come here. My guess is as the realities of BEV set, taxes will go up. I also think they will prevent an ICE rebellion by raising price at the pump through taxes. BEV is a bit early, so it is being forced in for not.

Also, don’t worry about jobs….humans are still far superior to robots at auto assembly!
 
I agree with most of your statement but not that part

Hydrogen has 6,500 BTU per gallon at 3000 psi

Heating Oil (diesel) has 138,690 BTUs per gallon. ...
Natural Gas has 33,000 BTUs per cubic foot at 3000psi. ...
Kerosene has 131,890 BTUs per gallon. ...
Propane has 91,500 BTUs per gallon. ...
Gasoline has 112,114–116,090 Btu/gal. ...

Liquid hydrogen does have the highest BTUs per LB BUT a that takes a massive amount of energy to liquefy

Gaseous hydrogen is liquefied by cooling it to below −253°C (−423°F). Once hydrogen is liquefied it can be stored at the liquefaction plant in large insulated tanks. It takes energy to liquefy hydrogen—using today's technology, liquefaction consumes more than 30% of the energy content of the hydrogen and is expensive.

So only with a heavily insulated tank of -423f liquid would that be correct.
OK, I may have mis-stated it's volumetric density. But you really can't argue with the US Dept of Energy data.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/gen/fy08/43061.pdf

So, according to their figures, one kg (2.2 lbs) of liquid hydrogen contains the same BTUs of energy as one gallon - 3.2 kg (7.04 lbs) of gasoline. If my math is correct, that makes it around 320% more energy dense than gasoline, pound for pound.

And as we all know, when you're talking about fuel used for transportation, POUNDS (weight/energy density) count for a LOT. Certainly more than volumetric density.

Or am I missing something?
 
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We have a 2013 Fusion hybrid with 160,000 miles. I was hesitant at first to buy it but my wife wanted it and it was her work car. I really like the car particularly for local driving. City/stop and go gets best fuel economy, 34 mpg. I use the fuel savings to buy more primers.
 
I've been in four pretty serious car wrecks in my life. One a guy ran me off the road in my Mazda RX 7 at 70 mph, another I was riding in a Volvo 740 and we ran into a BMW then jumped over the curb and landed in a vacant lot. Another I was riding in a Monte Carlo and another riding in a Chevy pickup. During all wrecks my head slammed into the roof of the vehicle even wearing my seat belt/shoulder harness except in the Chevy pickup. I'm 5-9 and had bad headaches but if I had been a little taller I would have had serious head and neck injuries if not been killed. I'm sure a Prius is a fuel efficient little car but I would not want to be in a wreck in one and I feel a lot safer with me and my family in my Ram pickup and will gladly pay a little extra for fuel.
 
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The big problem with cars today is the cost of repairs. Most anything minor will cost you a grand and anything significant will cost many thousands. I have a no idea what new engines and tranny's cost from the dealer but I know my heart skips a beat every time I have vehicle problem. Adding more expensive electronics to the vehicle adds more potential expensive repairs plus can you imagine breaking down in a small town and have the local mechanic try to fix your hybrid?

I think you will find the reliability of Toyota or Honda EV motors, batteries and the ICE motors in these vehicles to far exceed the reliability of Ford, GM or RAM trucks…..Which in turn lowers cost of ownership significantly. Just look at the paid by owner repairs being done on one vs the other.

I love my F150, but I narrowly avoided a $2000 repair of a design defect in the ICE because a previous owner bought a Powertrain warranty. This same repair has bee done twice in the first 75000 miles.
 
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I've been in four pretty serious car wrecks in my life. One a guy ran me off the road in my Mazda RX 7 at 70 mph, another I was riding in a Volvo 740 and we ran into a BMW then jumped over the curb and landed in a vacant lot. Another I was riding in a Monte Carlo and another riding in a Chevy pickup. During all wrecks my head slammed into the roof of the vehicle even wearing my seat belt/shoulder harness except in the Chevy pickup. I'm 5-9 and had bad headaches but if I had been a little taller I would have had serious head and neck injuries if not been killed. I'm sure a Prius is a fuel efficient little car but I would not want to be in a wreck in one and I feel a lot safer with me and my family in my Ram pickup and will gladly pay a little extra for fuel.

I’m really sorry to hear about your car accidents. If you really have evidence that the low head height in your vehicles caused your headaches, we need you to get ahold of NHTSA now. I say this because it is government regulation driving low head height, crash pads in the roof and airbag systems that lock you in position. Somehow that has been determined best.
 
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