M&P 10mm: Am I ready to be hurt again? *UPDATE w/VIDEO: Mag drop problem persists*

[AJ]

Don't get me wrong, I love S&W handguns. When I went looking for a 10MM Auto, I checked out S&W's, Colt's and Ruger's. I ended up with a Ruger SR1911 10MM. Yes, it was used and someone had it ported. However, after firing it, it came home with me.

 

[Farmer17]

Why is a flat nose hard cast bullet so important for bear protection? I always thought a full metal jacket rounded nose penetrated about as well as anything.

 

[rosewood]

Why is a flat nose hard cast bullet so important for bear protection? I always thought a full metal jacket rounded nose penetrated about as well as anything.

I can't explain it, but wide flat nose seems to disrupt the tissue more than a FMJ, or at least appears to. Also for some reason. Lead boolits seem to drop animals quicker than jacketed. Again, can't explain it, just have experienced it over the years.

Rosewood

 

[mark_lives_things]

Why is a flat nose hard cast bullet so important for bear protection? I always thought a full metal jacket rounded nose penetrated about as well as anything.

Round nose FMJ wouldn't be the worst choice, but:

1. Like Rosewood said, better tissue disruption.

2. Regular FMJ, if/when it loses its jacket, deforms pretty easily. This hampers penetration.

3. This is harder to validate, but probably true: compared to a flat nose, an intact round nose will supposedely have a greater tendency to deflect off of or "slide around" obstacles instead of punch through through them. A flat nose does a better job of producing penetration rather than deflection.

And since 10mm (or any handgun caliber) is marginal for the use case of predator defense, it's important that the projectile be optimized for that purpose, if that's why you're carrying it.

 

[bobsguns]

I'm a huge 10mm fan. I own 6-7 of them & carry one almost daily.

But none of mine are Smiths, they're all a mix of other brands. There's a reason for that, it's because Smith doesn't do semis very well at all.

I would argue that Smith has made only two semis worth spit, the models 41 & 52. Yes, I own both & they're darn good guns. But for whatever reason, the engineering from those didn't transfer to the later designs.

For those wanting a 10mm but in a non-1911 design, I would urge a hard look at the Springfield Armory XD or the FN. I don't reload, so I can't comment on the 200gr SWC bullets. But mine has been 100% with any JHP ammo I have used. All my 1911 10mm's have also been 100% as well.

It befuddles me that Smith can make such wonderful & amazing revolvers & turn around & produce such low-quality semis.

 

[rosewood]

I'm a huge 10mm fan. I own 6-7 of them & carry one almost daily.

But none of mine are Smiths, they're all a mix of other brands. There's a reason for that, it's because Smith doesn't do semis very well at all.

I would argue that Smith has made only two semis worth spit, the models 41 & 52. Yes, I own both & they're darn good guns. But for whatever reason, the engineering from those didn't transfer to the later designs.

For those wanting a 10mm but in a non-1911 design, I would urge a hard look at the Springfield Armory XD or the FN. I don't reload, so I can't comment on the 200gr SWC bullets. But mine has been 100% with any JHP ammo I have used. All my 1911 10mm's have also been 100% as well.

It befuddles me that Smith can make such wonderful & amazing revolvers & turn around & produce such low-quality semis.

You gonna start a fight with this.

I love 3rd Gen S&W semis. I believe they are some of the best and most reliable semi out there. Carry one everyday. I am warming up to the M&P 9 Sub now. I may start carrying it so I can have a weapon light.

I have 4 S&W 10mm Semis. 1006, 1076, 1013 and the M&P. I haven't put the M&P through the paces. But the 3rd gens are dang near bullet proof and have been 100% reliable.

Rosewood

 

[mark_lives_things]

I'm a huge 10mm fan. I own 6-7 of them & carry one almost daily.

But none of mine are Smiths, they're all a mix of other brands. There's a reason for that, it's because Smith doesn't do semis very well at all.

I would argue that Smith has made only two semis worth spit, the models 41 & 52. Yes, I own both & they're darn good guns. But for whatever reason, the engineering from those didn't transfer to the later designs.

For those wanting a 10mm but in a non-1911 design, I would urge a hard look at the Springfield Armory XD or the FN. I don't reload, so I can't comment on the 200gr SWC bullets. But mine has been 100% with any JHP ammo I have used. All my 1911 10mm's have also been 100% as well.

It befuddles me that Smith can make such wonderful & amazing revolvers & turn around & produce such low-quality semis.

The main reason why I'm so disappointed by the 10mm M&P is that I love M&Ps in general and have had great experiences with them.

 

[BisonFan2]

I wish I would have researched this gun more than I did before purchasing it last month. Performance Center 5.6 M&P. I read some reviews saying the problems were fixed and believed it. Like really, 2-3 years without fixing a known design flaw?
Dropped mags using 220g Underwood and Buffalo Bore.
In one single magazine, dropped 3 times and failed to feed the last round.
I asked S&W for a full refund, and I received an RMA for review of the gun.
FedEx just picked it up to go back for warranty repair. Strange thing is the S&W repair center asked for the gun only; “do not send anything else that came with it, including magazines”. Not looking forward to this, based on what I have read on these forums.
Crazy that S&W did not catch this early in the design process, or least in the test phase. Clearly not fully tested. Shame.

 

[AJ]

I wish I would have researched this gun more than I did before purchasing it last month. Performance Center 5.6 M&P. I read some reviews saying the problems were fixed and believed it. Like really, 2-3 years without fixing a known design flaw?
Dropped mags using 220g Underwood and Buffalo Bore.
In one single magazine, dropped 3 times and failed to feed the last round.
I asked S&W for a full refund, and I received an RMA for review of the gun.
FedEx just picked it up to go back for warranty repair. Strange thing is the S&W repair center asked for the gun only; “do not send anything else that came with it, including magazines”. Not looking forward to this, based on what I have read on these forums.
Crazy that S&W did not catch this early in the design process, or least in the test phase. Clearly not fully tested. Shame.

Get your money back from S&W or make the best trade you can.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
No problems with my PC 10mm
But, I do not use the thumb high/forward hold[no good on unmodifided guns],, Ride the safety[same],, or regrip between shots [shot magnums for years not mouseguns with bunnyfart loads...]
I have seen more problems caused by the thumbhigh hold recently .
Keep your fingers away from the controls and slide and you will have a better time.

 

[Weldmeister]

It's wild to me that they haven't fixed it yet:
1. One of the most common -- if not *the* most common -- reasons why people want 10mm pistols is for predator defense.
2. One of the most common -- if not *the* most common -- rounds for that purpose is flat-nose hard cast at 200 or 220 grains.

Given #1 and #2, it's a big problem if a 10mm pistol chokes on 200 grain hard cast.

Exactly! If I wanted .40 S&W ballistics, that's what I would have chosen. My M&P 10mm 2.0 suffers all of the problems noted in these threads. Mag drops, failures to feed, sending loaded rounds from the magazine out the ejection port... I have installed the Apex extractor, heavier recoil and magazine springs, and the problems still persist. I am not a new shooter, earned IPSC Master Class back in 1991 shooting a non comped .45 1911. I am pretty sure the problem isn't my technique.

 

[ukcats]

I waited and hoped Smith would give us a M&P 10mm. But, if it can’t handle Underwood 200gr hard cast ammo reliably, it is useless to me. I will continue to use my Glock 20.4 when in the mountains and woods.

 

[mrshyvley]

Groo here
No problems with my PC 10mm
But, I do not use the thumb high/forward hold[no good on unmodifided guns],, Ride the safety[same],, or regrip between shots [shot magnums for years not mouseguns with bunnyfart loads...]
I have seen more problems caused by the thumbhigh hold recently .
Keep your fingers away from the controls and slide and you will have a better time.

I'm not saying that this may not be a problem with some shooters, but not with me because I don't do this.

My M&P 10mm 4.6" was an earlier one purchased new in March of '22.
Even stock with no changes, it shot EVERY cartridge I fed it except Double Tap 200 grain hard cast that has the wide flat bullets.
I've not yet tried the Underwood 200 grain hard cast rounds yet.
I find that the the Double Tap 200 grain hard cast rounds I have on average measured a little less than the Minimum overall length spec.

Stock it would shoot the Underwood 180 grain JHP without problem and the 165 grain JHP. as well as other less potent practice rounds.

I was also one of the early ones who examined the problem and believed the wide front bullets were hitting the mag catch and popping out the magazine.
BUT then later tried firing it with partially loaded magazines that weren't loaded far enough down that the flay nosed bullets could hit the mag release and it STILL popped the magazine out.

I then tried firing it with the Double Taps in a partially loaded magazine that the rounds weren't down to the mag catch, while pressing in on the opposite side of the mag catch.

Then, instead of popping the magazine out, it jammed with the cartridge jammed against the top opening of the chamber.
THIS makes me wonder if the magazine is popping out because in this position with the slide trying to close, it puts a downward pressure on the magazine and pops it out.
Combine this with the fact that the Double Tap rounds I have measure a little less than Minimum overall length spec.