CCW Reciprocity in Washington DC!!! I hope so!!!

[DeafSmith]

Plus there's the whole "trampling of civil liberties" and "using federal law enforcement for low-level municipal policing tasks" and burning political capital…might play well to the base, but it's building towards a Kent State moment and there's zero ambiguity as to who will be accountable in the public's eyes when a Federal LEO or service member makes a mistake and shoots an American citizen for some "reason".

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All actions have consequences. Sometimes those are long-delayed, but ultimately, they ALWAYS manifest themselves. Sometimes on those who took the actions, sometimes on those fellow travelers, but they ALWAYS manifest themselves.

Personally, I'm a bit troubled by the precedent that a President or even the Federal government as a whole can mobilize specific law-enforcement and military forces to combat vaguely-described "crime"…what's to stop a future President from doing exactly that to "control crime" and simply defining the "crime" as a failure to turn in weapons?

No "trampling of civil liberties" has been shown.. now they even let residents have rifles and shotguns to legally carry!!!! Try what with the Democrat ran D.C.

And rape, robbery, murder, etc.. is not "vaguely-described 'crime'"... it is people being killed in the streets, people being mugged, people being robbed..

 

[biku324]

Just like the gangsters in the 1930s.. it will take time to eliminate them. Force them to leave and those that don't leave get locked up. Crime will not cease in 'X' number of days... but it will go down and down over time. And during that time the D.C. police will reorganize and get stronger.. THEN they can take over.

Gangsters in the 1930s never went away. Their primary livelihood, bootlegging, went away when Prohibition was repealed. The Five Families in NYC and organized crime throughout the country simply moved to gambling, first 'numbers' or today's government-run lotteries, narcotics, prostitution, extortion rackets, and other many other endeavors, including many that continue today.

The military is not trained for daily policing in large cities, not patrol, not investigations. This wasreful, dangerous practice ended badly after the Civil War (when the posse comitatus act was passed) and will end badly again if continued on a larger scale.

 

[DeafSmith]

Gangsters in the 1930s never went away. Their primary livelihood, bootlegging, went away when Prohibition was repealed. The Five Families in NYC and organized crime throughout the country simply moved to gambling, first 'numbers' or today's government-run lotteries, narcotics, prostitution, extortion rackets, and other many other endeavors, including many that continue today.

The military is not trained for daily policing in large cities, not patrol, not investigations. This wasreful, dangerous practice ended badly after the Civil War (when the posse comitatus act was passed) and will end badly again if continued on a larger scale.

Prohibition was repealed on December 5, 1933.. John Dillinger was killed/apprehended July 22, 1934. Baby Face Nelson was killed Nov. 27, 1934. As were a bunch of them (the violent gangsters.) By 1935, the FBI reported that most of the era's most famous outlaws were dead or captured... i.e. after Prohibition was repealed. They are after the gangs that are doing so much violent crime.

Also the National Guard IS being trained for patrol.. while the D.C. police do investigations.

 

[Bald1]

No State has reciprocity with DC? PLEASE provide me this information
DC only recognizes its concealed carry permits.

You also have an over simplistic unreasonable theory on the causes of crime.

If it was so simple as just sending in manpower and the problem disappears don't you think that would have been done years ago?

Now, in authoritarian countries that does work a little better. Take a peak at Russia, Iran, China, etc... and you will see lower numbers. But even there not eliminated. And I don't believe I want to live that way.

Causes of crime are rooted in many aspects.

Don't look now but your 3rd paragraph is happening.

 

[Dick Winningstad]

Oh yea....

Trump Says He's a Second Amendment Person, Favors Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity in Washington, DC

Trump Says He’s a Second Amendment Person, Favors Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity in Washington, DC

They have [concealed carry reciprocity] in some states and I feel strongly about it. As you know, I’m in favor of it. People have to protect themselves. I’m a Second Amendment person. Very simple.

www.shootingnewsweekly.com

It would be a good thing, but with so many federal buildings around about half the city would be off limits to you.

 

[biku324]

Prohibition was repealed on December 5, 1933.. John Dillinger was killed/apprehended July 22, 1934. Baby Face Nelson was killed Nov. 27, 1934. As were a bunch of them (the violent gangsters.) By 1935, the FBI reported that most of the era's most famous outlaws were dead or captured... i.e. after Prohibition was repealed. They are after the gangs that are doing so much violent crime.

Also the National Guard IS being trained for patrol.. while the D.C. police do investigations.

That's cherry-picking. The problem of very violent organized crime continued and continues. https://fortynews.com/news/2024/9/2...zed-Crime:-Key-Arrests-and-Leadership-Changes

Training soldiers for police patrol is like training electricians to repair tires. You can do it, but it's stupid and wasteful. And they'll still have no experience.

 

[326MOD10]

Don't look now but your 3rd paragraph is happening.

It is the 4th paragraph that worries me that is happening. And I could make some very compelling arguments as to what is taking place over a broad spectrum of things and compare it to history of the places listed.

Of course I would have to do it quickly as history is being changed.

But, the point is once the occupying force leaves, and eventually it will, the crime is still there and will return in mass. And that is even in instances of the occupying force being police saturation patrols.

You have to solve the whole problem not just put lipstick on a pig.

 

[326MOD10]

And to the points made by biku324 on the training and differences between street patrol officers and investigators or NG doing patrol work I just read an article where a federal agent made an arrest and seized two handguns.

The judge chastised the prosecution over the illegality of the stop and search. Pierro even had the case dropped "in the interest of justice"

So how is that cleaning up anything as that guy is back on the street and has a case for a 4th Amendment violation lawsuit.

I have a good friend who has bought dope her entire career doing UC work. Very good at it and knows drug cases. She is the first to say she does not know street work and doesn't feel comfortable doing it.

I view it just the opposite. Did street work my career and could never feel comfortable buying dope from a cartel member.

It isn't one size fits all.

 

[raljr1]

It's something along the line of a liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet.

Well, dammit, let's mug a few of them so they see the light. (Not serious about this.)

Seriously, the challenge of crime in our society is, in fact, an issue tied directly to societal norms that are accepted in significant measure by the very segment of society that suffers the most from it.,

 

[Rocketmedic40]

No "trampling of civil liberties" has been shown.. now they even let residents have rifles and shotguns to legally carry!!!! Try what with the Democrat ran D.C.

And rape, robbery, murder, etc.. is not "vaguely-described 'crime'"... it is people being killed in the streets, people being mugged, people being robbed..

And what, pray tell, is the civic purpose of open-carrying a long arm in public in the year 2025? Who does that?

Three people: "protesters", hunters and active shooters. As a general rule, peaceful protesters likely to show up in this administration don't even know what a gun is and I'd imagine the District has a fairly low tolerance for urban hunting…

I have it on very good authority that pretty much no one wants the random NPC carrying a long arm wandering around **their** business, residence or workplace…the old gaming prompt of "you can't rest here, enemies are nearby" makes it really hard to save your game and I hear the new Life update has no pause function.

It ain't a law and order move to "allow" open carry of rifles and shotguns, brocifer; that's pledging that the Capital District is totes-ok with a Yt Power demonstration team showing up waving matching ARs and khakis around to "support" a particular team of super-elected officials. Not saying the clarification isn't somewhat welcome so DC residents can carry their long arms, but this isn't being done so Earl and Terry can legally maintain their Mossbergs at their doors, it's being done so Charlie Kirk's #1 fan club can get all into costume and feel special. If anything, open-carrying rifles around makes it harder for the police and security forces to actually protect their communities, because if it's not a protest and it's not a hunter, the reasonable assumption for "that man has a rifle out in public!" in 2025 in a high-population urban area is that it's about to get very kinetic indeed.

And I'm 200% sure the Secret Service, Capital Police, military security teams, etc. are highly intolerant of average joes on their own initiative wandering around the nation's capital with multi-hundred-meter-ranged shoulder arms with optics and ammunition capable of defeating armor and barriers. I think that trying to test Judge Jeanine's proclamations as anything other than an UltraMaximum Khaki-and-Tiki-Fun-Time MAGAMax Charlottesville #1 Happy Fan Club member would get you in a lot of trouble, perhaps with extra holes. And it would immediately be justified as "he was ANTIFA!" Or some other nonsense. Remember, these are the same security organs that just arrested a middle-aged white dude for burning a **flag** he spent twenty years fighting for in public protest of a clearly unconstitutional executive order and a legal team that equates a hurled foot-long submarine sandwich with an attempted lethal assault…not exactly the consistently rational types I'd trust with demonstrating my civil liberties around.

 

[Denverd0n]

And how, precisely, is this fair to the people of D.C.?

They knew the rules before they moved there. They made the choice. How is it anything other than fair to let people live with the consequences of the choices that they freely make!?!

 

[Bald1]

It is the 4th paragraph that worries me that is happening. And I could make some very compelling arguments as to what is taking place over a broad spectrum of things and compare it to history of the places listed.

Of course I would have to do it quickly as history is being changed.

But, the point is once the occupying force leaves, and eventually it will, the crime is still there and will return in mass. And that is even in instances of the occupying force being police saturation patrols.

You have to solve the whole problem not just put lipstick on a pig.

I understand that. Just having a little fun. I goal should be to restore order and safety. Then give DC police what they need to maintain it. I do believe as our nations capital it should be a priority. We seem to have money to hand out all over the world. Let's put us first for a change.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

They knew the rules before they moved there. They made the choice. How is it anything other than fair to let people live with the consequences of the choices that they freely make!?!

#Libertyandjusticeforall
I wonder if your opinion would be different if their demographics mirrored, say, Idaho.

 

[ladder13]

A whole lot of politics and criticism here being spouted as usual , but no solutions offered on anything.

Has politics been removed as a banned topic, been awhile since I read the rules?

 

[326MOD10]

A whole lot of politics and criticism here being spouted as usual , but no solutions offered on anything.

Has politics been removed as a banned topic, been awhile since I read the rules?

Actually most of the post have remained politics free, with the exception of some, and I may be guilty of a little.

Not wanting the NG deployed against US citizens in a LE capacity is not a political issue unless you make it one. I just don't believe it is the answer and that is not the mission of the NG.

Now, when you get into solutions to solve the crime issues in major metropolitan areas that is when you get into politics.

You have to ask yourself over the past four years there have been different approaches taken to try and accomplish this. Not the more police and more prisons approach. Most of the cities show a decline in crime overall. Now you can believe that is just fake news, which is an answer given when you don't like the answer, but I find that a curious anomaly.

No crime reduction is going to happen overnight. You may reduce it and suppress it for the short hall but to make a true difference you need to change societal thinking and the approach. Sadly most of those programs have been cut out of the process in favor of more policing.

This is why the problem is never solved.

 

[Denverd0n]

#Libertyandjusticeforall
I wonder if your opinion would be different if their demographics mirrored, say, Idaho.

Nope. Wouldn't change my opinion even the tiniest little bit. When you make a fully-informed, free and willing choice, you get to live with the consequences of that choice. That is perfectly fair, and it is how the world SHOULD work in every situation.

I mean, honestly, are you really arguing that people should NOT have to live with the consequences of their freely-made choices? I find that a pretty bizarre position for anyone to take.

But I'll leave it at that, and you're welcome to have the last word.

 

[DeafSmith]

And what, pray tell, is the civic purpose of open-carrying a long arm in public in the year 2025? Who does that?

Three people: "protesters", hunters and active shooters. As a general rule, peaceful protesters likely to show up in this administration don't even know what a gun is and I'd imagine the District has a fairly low tolerance for urban hunting…

I have it on very good authority that pretty much no one wants the random NPC carrying a long arm wandering around **their** business, residence or workplace…the old gaming prompt of "you can't rest here, enemies are nearby" makes it really hard to save your game and I hear the new Life update has no pause function.

It ain't a law and order move to "allow" open carry of rifles and shotguns, brocifer; that's pledging that the Capital District is totes-ok with a Yt Power demonstration team showing up waving matching ARs and khakis around to "support" a particular team of super-elected officials. Not saying the clarification isn't somewhat welcome so DC residents can carry their long arms, but this isn't being done so Earl and Terry can legally maintain their Mossbergs at their doors, it's being done so Charlie Kirk's #1 fan club can get all into costume and feel special. If anything, open-carrying rifles around makes it harder for the police and security forces to actually protect their communities, because if it's not a protest and it's not a hunter, the reasonable assumption for "that man has a rifle out in public!" in 2025 in a high-population urban area is that it's about to get very kinetic indeed.

And I'm 200% sure the Secret Service, Capital Police, military security teams, etc. are highly intolerant of average joes on their own initiative wandering around the nation's capital with multi-hundred-meter-ranged shoulder arms with optics and ammunition capable of defeating armor and barriers. I think that trying to test Judge Jeanine's proclamations as anything other than an UltraMaximum Khaki-and-Tiki-Fun-Time MAGAMax Charlottesville #1 Happy Fan Club member would get you in a lot of trouble, perhaps with extra holes. And it would immediately be justified as "he was ANTIFA!" Or some other nonsense. Remember, these are the same security organs that just arrested a middle-aged white dude for burning a **flag** he spent twenty years fighting for in public protest of a clearly unconstitutional executive order and a legal team that equates a hurled foot-long submarine sandwich with an attempted lethal assault…not exactly the consistently rational types I'd trust with demonstrating my civil liberties around.

If you can't carry a handgun due to legalities but you can carry a carbine or short shotgun... well?

And it is not in the capitol buildings but WHERE THEY LIVE.

Oh and here in Texas you can do just that.. but most just CCW a pistol.

I have it on good word that Texans here find that ok.

 

[biku324]

I understand that. Just having a little fun. I goal should be to restore order and safety. Then give DC police what they need to maintain it. I do believe as our nations capital it should be a priority. We seem to have money to hand out all over the world. Let's put us first for a change.

So...beginning in 2012, DOD took over Afghan National Police training from the State Department (State's efforts were going poorly). The only result of billions spent there by DOD that you would see if you were stupid enough to visit there would be that DOD established basic literacy courses (among many, many other programs) for the ANP, trying to bring them all to at least 3rd grade proficiency; most pre-Taliban police personnel, male and female, can now read and write a little. Most are no longer in policing.

Never use CNC machining equipment to accomplish a maritime biology and oceanographic mapping task. Use the right tool for the right task.

So - let's say suddenly you can carry concealed in DC. You accidentally 'print' while tying a shoe; six bystanders start screaming, "He's got a gun" and pointing at you. Do you want a trained, experienced police officer who knows the local ways and laws making contact with you or would you prefer an armed 19 year-old E-3 water purification specialist from Shepeherdstown, WV on a 30 day deployment supervised by a 24 year-old E-5 who has a human resources MOS?

 

[DeafSmith]

So...beginning in 2012, DOD took over Afghan National Police training from the State Department (State's efforts were going poorly). The only result of billions that you would see if you were stupid enough to visit there would be that DOD established basic literacy for the ANP, trying to bring them all to at least 3rd grade proficiency; most pre-Taliban police personnel, male and female can read and write a little. Most are no longer in policing.

Never use CNC machining equipment to accomplish a maritime biology and mapping task. Use the right tool for the right task.

So - let's say suddenly you can carry concealed in DC. You accidentally 'print' while tying a shoe; six bystanders start screaming, "He's got a gun" and pointing at you. Do you want a trained, experienced police officer who knows the local ways and laws making contact with you or would you prefer an armed 19 year-old E-3 water purification specialist from Shepeherdstown, WV on a 30 day deployment supervised by a 24 year-old E-5 who has a human resources MOS?

D.C. ain't Afghanistan.. National Guard ain't DOD Army GIs. And D.C. populace don't speak Afghan either.... And to train them does not take months or years... no doubt NG solders, being civilians most of the time, know well what CCW is (many may have permits themselves!)

And CCW holders are (least in Texas) told how to act if stopped. And one more thing.. as Massad Ayoob said, CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED.

So I am not worried at all.

 

[biku324]

D.C. ain't Afghanistan.. National Guard ain't DOD Army GIs. And D.C. populace don't speak Afghan either.... And to train them does not take months or years... no doubt NG solders, being civilians most of the time, know well what CCW is (many may have permits themselves!)

And CCW holders are (least in Texas) told how to act if stopped. And one more thing.. as Massad Ayoob said, CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED.

So I am not worried at all.

Ah, I see. Good luck.

Since DC isn't Afghanistan, why send the military?