Past presidents have lifetime secret service protection. Is it at the same intense level as a sitting president? I mean when Bill Clinton travels is there all the advance planning done as when the sitting president travels?
Now when an individual runs for president, that individual does not get presidential level secret service protection until he wins his party's nomination.
What level of secret service protection is Trump now getting? The full monty or the retirement level?
Who had the ball for the pre clearing Saturday, the local police or Trump's secret Service detail? I can't see Trump's current detail having access to the resources that Biden has as sitting president. Seems as if Trump is in a grey area until he gets the official nomination and gets the full sitting president protection .
or am I wrong?
Thought about this over the weekend and thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone has an answer.
And PLEASE no conspiracy theories......I just think that this is something that should be talked about. Perhaps at some point a presumptive nominee should get the full protection before the actual nomination. I really do not think that local police are trained to do a complete presidential level work up of an outdoor speech venue and I do not think that at this time the government has allocated full sitting presidential resources to the candidate' secret service protection. Or am I wrong? I'd like to hear from some of out members with federal experience as to what they think about this.

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Forum consigliere

I am under the impression Trump has the level of a Past President security. How this differentiates from current President I don't know.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

So, sitting Presidents enjoy a greater level of protection than former Presidents, which decreases as the former Presidents age and recede from public life. As an example, I'm guessing that President Carter doesn't have a SS ERT and rooftop snipers following him everywhere. Further, the SS relies more and more on local LEO's as former Presidents age and recede from public life. It hasn't been revealed yet to my knowledge, but by the way they were dressed, I'm guessing those two counter snipers on the roof at the rally were local LEO. President Trump is also entitled to SS protection as the presumptive (until this week) Republican Presidential nominee. That protection is also at a lower level than a sitting President. I am merely spitballing this last part, but I presume that President Trumps current level of protection, as a former President and presumptive Presidential nominee, remained somewhat below that of the sitting President, but would have incrementally ramped up as the election draws near . . .

Until the events of Saturday, July 13, 2024, which changed everything . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Pull up podcasts by radio talk figure Dan Bongino or stream his live show. He is a former NYPD officer and Secret Service Special Agent. He can explain chapter and verse of the differences between the details assigned to a sitting versus a former POTUS.

If I may add on to the questions....

Are the ROE for the protective details different between POTUS and a "presumptive nominee?

Or, in different terms, would the counter-sniper have shot first if the sitting president was onstage? It certainly seemed like he had the assassin sighted in.

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Because of the metric system?

It’s now being said the SS was aware that the roof top of the shooters building was a problem but due to lack of manpower they could not cover it however they should have made sure to have local officers on that site. Easy to say now of course. Also the SS did not cover Trump during his exit from the stage exposing him to the possibility of a second shooters attempt. An assassin has to be “effective” only once the “protection” has to be perfect always. I bet Putin has no trouble funding adequate protection

Best practice is that a protection team always does an advance survey of a venue the principal is going to appear at. The main differences, depending upon perceived threat level, is the depth of the survey. OK, the SS would/should have done an advance survey of the venue. Then the agent(s) would have drawn up a plan. Hopefully whoever did it wanted a post on that roof and saved a copy. The roof should have been posted. Budget and staffing can interfere with things.

However, given the reduced size from the presidential team, the team's emphasis is close protection of the principal. They have to depend upon the locals for coverage beyond that and that's where the issues begin. Command, control and communication with the various groups is going to suffer. I noted in another post that shared responsibility is effectively no responsibility.

The close in agents who jumped and covered Trump seem to have been up to speed. I am not up to speed on counter-sniper stuff, but it sure seems that the building question should've been secured and was not.

I am not sure if the marksmen who took out the shooter were local, although I tend to doubt it. The one time I remember my agency being involved in a detail for a sitting detail, the SWAT guys were themselves under the eyes/scopes of the Secret Service, but the level of coverage is a lot different.

Also, there is no such thing as "Rules of Engagement" for LE. That is a military term that does not and never should be applied to LE. The only standard is 4th amendment (it's a seizure), and defense of self and others is always preemptive.

Best guess - the coverage was less than adequate because there is a different standard for the retired President than there is for an actual nominee. That ought to be revisited.

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NHI, 10-8.

I read a report last night that the shooter had contact with a local Leo a few minutes before the incident

I seem to remember that one of the key components to the Ruby Ridge lawsuit was that the FBI altered their "rules of Engagement" during the standoff.

Additionally, US law enforcement has co-opted every other aspect of the military, so why not a simple phrase?

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Because of the metric system?

One cockamamie notion I'll toss is that the idealized perception of the gun toting psycho is is strictly a product from the political right and the fact that a rally was held in a pro Trump arena had lessened the threat to the point assets were allocated according to preconceived ideas.

My brother's uncle's sister's aunt's grandmother posted that the SS paid the kid ten bucks to do it. Works for me.

And the FBI commander and DC brass later denied making any such changes just two dead and $3 million later.

Here are the DOJ rules:

1-16.200 - DEADLY FORCE
Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person.
Deadly force may not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing suspect.

DHS rules are nearly identical.

Perfect! Forgot about Dan. I suspect he will have a lot to say today

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Forum consigliere

Sure looked to me like they were doing their best to cover him with their bodies as they hustled him off stage. A tall agent holding his right arm up and over Trump in an effort to shield him stood out to me in particular. It also looked to me that the female agent in the mix, while doing her best, was physically simply too small to be up to the task of using her body as shield.

They were all — including the woman I describe as too small — clearly ready and willing to take a bullet for their charge, and at that moment in time it was a real possibility.

That is their job, their mission, of course, but that they executed immediately with no sign of fear, only urgency and intent, impressed me.

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Edited to add: Here is a former SS agent who is critical of the speed, or lack thereof, rather, with which the SS removed Trump from the scene:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...eb5_video.html

Dan is the man and has already spoken on the subject.

Question: What is the standard for holstering a pistol. I'm sure drawing and holstering is covered ad nauseum at the SS academy.

1-16.200, DEADLY FORCE sure sounds like Rules of Engagement to me. Call it what you will.

You can change ROE - the police rules are mostly set by the Constitution through case law.

I was not SS. When I attended Firearms Instructor School at FLETC for my agency, we spent two entire days with a blue gun drawing and holstering . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

A 20 year old managed to outsmart all the professionals, get on a roof top with clear line of sight to the stage and got shots off including a head shot that missed. Think about that.

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Thread Killer.

Dan has been hot on this today. There needs to be a major house cleaning from the top down at the USSS. This can not be allowed to happen again.

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No baby we aint

It’s being reported by several outlets that manpower was diverted to a Jill Biden event. Is this true? Who knows.

Speaking of protection, I couldn't help but notice that a 5 foot nothing woman was trying to be a shield. The top of her head came up to his chest. Then there's the other 3 who looked like they were preforming and bad comedy skit.

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Thread Killer.

I do agree that they covered him quickly and kept him down but when allowing him to be uncovered for the fist pump and his walking upright offstage he was exposed. At this time the SS didn’t know that this wasn’t a lone shooter. It’s a tough job but too many cracks in the armor for me.

Back when W was president, the law was changed to only provide Secret Service protection for 10 years after leaving office. Under O's administration, it was changed back to lifetime. For just O and later, or does W still have protection?

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Common sense isn't so common.

Yes. He's never been free of death threats, domestic and foreign.

I also noticed there was no rush to remove him from the stage. Of course, some seconds were spend checking for injuries--why his tie and shirt were askew--and I'm sure Trump was telling them to wait so he could wave and fist pump. Can't let a good crisis go to waste.

I thought the same thing. Trump's head was exposed the majority of the time, and they had no way of knowing that the shooter was alone. Seems like a kevlar shield, or umbrella, or anything at all woulda been a good idea.

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Because of the metric system?

Here is another issue that may never be addressed.
ALL law enforcement agencies, federal, state & local are severely short staffed and I believe we are going to see that this was a major issue here. I believe the SS pre-site assessment of the locality, venue and expected atmosphere of the attendees lead to a false belief they could get by with or had to get by with whatever personnel they had available.
I also wonder how many SS people were already in Milwaukee and therefore NOT available here?
I read recently that the SS is no exception to being short handed and their people (uniformed and non-uniformed) were working weeks without days off and 12 to 16 hour days leading to agent burnout, and that was BEFORE they even approached the conventions.
I have worked SS details and there is always a communication issue between all the agencies (Federal, State & Local) because contrary to popular belief, there is NO commonality of radio frequencies/radio equipment. This causes delays with critical information having to be passed through several relays to get sometimes critical questions and answers to/from the correct people.
I was a participant in the planning phase of a SS detail and even then (25+ years ago) they had to borrow other Federal non-SS agents (FBI, DEA, DHS, ATF) to help with man-power, they also relied heavily on state and local agencies which again complicated communication issues. Also there were parts of the plan that those not with the SS supposedly did have the need to know. We were all just briefed and made aware of our own little slice of the pie.

Protection for former President's wasn't enacted until 1965. It expanded to their widows in 1968.

After leaving office, President Harry Truman and his wife took a long road trip by automobile with no protection, or other assistance, as documented in the book "Harry Truman's Excellent Adventure". Harry had been the target of an assassination attempt in 1950 by two Puerto Rican pro-independence "activists".

Jimmy Carter used to come to north Georgia and fly fish the Soque River. He would be surrounded by some six to ten fellows, but I am unsure what level of service they provided for him.

Not even the SS can tell Trump what to do if he doesn't feel like it.

This is what they gave him...

Attached Images

Fife.jpg (33.9 KB, 75 views)

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Remain Viable

He had protection. He was given a revolver from either S&W or Colt. I forget which. 2” Snubby 38 if I recall correctly

You know, in just reading this thread I continue to be impressed by the caliber of character of our members. I'm a regular here and on Cast Boolits, and much more recently Shotgun World. There are similar threads on all of the forums, naturally. Thats not surprising. Not only is this world news, but in this particular election gun owners are very much paying attention. But on Shotgun World in particular, these threads quickly (like within the first 10 posts) degenerated into name calling conspiracy theory hissy fits. And the administration there is the worst part. I only hang out there because the knowlege of SOME of the members in all things shotgun is as good as ours is in all things Smith & Wesson.

My point is you are all a fine bunch of gentlemen (and ladies I'm sure) and I'm proud to be a member here.

In a free society it will always be possible for a radical person to attempt
to assassinate or comet mayham. In a police state [country] it is much harder

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age is just a number

Truman was given a Chiefs Special, but he was a long time gun owner and hunter before that, as was his father.

As an example, when he was discharged as a Captain after WW I, he brought home a 1911 , and a 1917.

You have the wrong president, Clinton signed the law limiting it to 10 years but he was exempt, W was the first to be on the 10 year plan.

The first link I pulled up was CBS, if you don't trust them there are dozens more. I am just adding this to show the dates of when the laws were signed.

Obama restores lifetime Secret Service for former presidents - CBS News

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

This story of local police officer climbing a ladder and observing the shooter seems to be repeatedly cited in the media.
Gunman pointed rifle at local officer before firing at Trump during rally, sources tell AP | PBS News

Qualification - I haven’t been part of a USSS planning for a Presidential visit for about 20 years. Did participate in several as a youngster.

This comports with my understanding that local law enforcement and the draft of other federal law enforcement often support the USSS. Moreover, the security of the outer perimeter is largely left to those pick-up teams and close protection is mostly a USSS mission.

Like most things gone tragically wrong, there’s a probably plenty of blame to go around. As for the police officer who climbed the ladder - Bravo Zulu. You may have prevented a much greater tragedy.

My heart aches for the man killed and the other man seriously injured. There’s no place for violence in our politics.

I'll ask again:

How did the kid know that that rooftop offered a clear line of sight to the stage, was unguarded and was climbable? How? Was he that smart, that good of a planner?

I can't be the only one questioning the government approved narrative.

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Thread Killer.

Actually, you could.

In 2017, then-President Trump visited the Philippines. There his security detail was Secret Service, some Diplomatic Security from the Embassy, and the Philippine National Police (most had no radios). The dignitary protection system for Trump there was exactly as it was in the every US jurisdiction I've worked where there was a Presidential or Presidential candidate or Vice-Presidential event.

Real-world events aren't movies or media.

Since you say you worked "where there was a Presidential or Presidential candidate or Vice-Presidential event" I'll ask again:

How do you think the kid knew that that rooftop offered a clear line of sight to the stage, was unguarded and was climbable? How?

I know I'm not the only one questioning the government approved narrative.

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Thread Killer.

I don’t know what level of SS protection retired a POTUS gets, but I’d bet the local Boy Scout troop could have done a better job. A nerd walked right into a seemingly secured area with a rifle and climbed on to the roof of a building 150 yds from the stage, really!? Dude had some big plums.

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213th FBINA

As to the reason it took time to remove Trump from the stage, they were waiting for word about the shooter. On Trump's open mic you can hear another agent report "shooter down, shooter down," then the guys with Trump saying "okay, are we ready? Let's go, let's go!" There was more than just their bodies shielding him on the stage. Part of the red white and blue banner behind him and possibly other items like the podium, were armored, so center stage wasn't the worst place to hunker down. Surely the scenario had been rehearsed prior to Saturday.
The guys and gals on the stage with Trump did their jobs as best they could, but the failure to cover those roofs, even with drones, will be remembered as a colossal screw-up that cost a good man his life, and almost resulted in the death of a former President and current candidate for the office. Heads should roll.

You guys need to dust off the movie "Guarding Tess" from 1994 with Nicolas Cage and Shirley MacLaine.

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- Change it back -

I'd mildly suggest that even the best over-watch (they had it, as evidenced by the quick reaction to the shots) is no substitute for well-trained outer perimeter security.

Truman was the first President to get a Presidential Retirement since he was broke.

The Former Presidents Act of 1958 was created/done for Truman.

If you google the poorest President he is on the top of the list followed closely by Wilson.

My daughter and I had ran into Ronald Reagan at a Dentist Office in Beverly Hills. He just had two men with him.

When DEI matters more than the protection there is a problem. Women are fine officers in most situations. They are fine service members in most situations. There are some situations where they are not equal. Seal Teams, Special Forces, Long Range Recon (LURPS), various Government protective agencies and assault teams, and many other forces are areas where the ladies just do not qualify. I don't care how "woke" you are, there are just some things the girls can't do well enough, especially if you've got a fat roll that prevents you from re-holstering a pistol. (fat guys need not apply for this either.)

I've watched videos of people telling the police there was a guy on the roof with a gun. There are even videos a couple people took of the shooter on the roof before she started shooting.

I've not seen any women playing in the NFL yet. If DEI is so important...I wonder why their aren't any?