REM 3200
US Veteran
Yep, they want a position, not a job. 
$15 An Hour
- Thread starter bricker
- Start date
I have mixed feelings about min. wage increases as a means of "lifting all boats."
Raise it to $15/hr. in places like Seattle and NYC where the cost of living is astronomical? Ehhhh... Maybe. In places with depressed economies like mine where most unskilled jobs start you off at $7.25/hr.? Oh, heck no.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Help get people off the SNAP/TANF and Public Assistance rolls by giving them a boost to their income, yet face the very real possibility of reduction of benefits, layoffs, and even closings? It's not as easy of a solution as we're led to believe.
Inflation and cost of living are also very much real. $15/hr. may have been a princely wage at one time, but in some areas it don't mean squat.
In short, it's a simple solution to a complex problem. And context, as is the case with a great many things, is key.
Raise it to $15/hr. in places like Seattle and NYC where the cost of living is astronomical? Ehhhh... Maybe. In places with depressed economies like mine where most unskilled jobs start you off at $7.25/hr.? Oh, heck no.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Help get people off the SNAP/TANF and Public Assistance rolls by giving them a boost to their income, yet face the very real possibility of reduction of benefits, layoffs, and even closings? It's not as easy of a solution as we're led to believe.
Inflation and cost of living are also very much real. $15/hr. may have been a princely wage at one time, but in some areas it don't mean squat.
In short, it's a simple solution to a complex problem. And context, as is the case with a great many things, is key.
DeathGrip
US Veteran
Entry level jobs will become even harder to come by and maybe if you're a productive worker you'll get to work twice as hard to keep your part time job.
If we're lucky your household income will go up and you lose your benefits and subsidies and get to pay taxes.
Said tax money will then be spent on the hundreds of thousands of un-hireable refugees.
If we're lucky your household income will go up and you lose your benefits and subsidies and get to pay taxes.
Said tax money will then be spent on the hundreds of thousands of un-hireable refugees.
That is not an acceptable reason for the government to tell business owners how much to pay their employees, and it is not a solution to the problem.
I am in favor of eliminating all tax-payer funded programs for freeloaders. Let the rioting start!
A minimum wage law is not the reason those things above mentioned went away.
M3Stuart
Member
Fair question. Prepare for an itemized response.
* To paraphrase Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan (1588-1679); While there is no 'greater good' (the premise of an intrusive, or 'big', government), there is most definitely a greater evil. That greater evil is the anarchy that would ensue by the huge mass of disenfranchised people who would find it preferable to steal and rob rather than work - because there are no jobs for them to work. (Think of all the poverty-stricken countries around the world which are totally corrupt and lack functional governments).
* Government has such right under the, loosely interpreted, Preamble to the Constitution, to; "...promote the general welfare..". And, under Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution referred to as 'The Commerce Clause'. (of course this is hotly debated...).
The combination of these two points serve to provide a sense of 'domestic tranquility', and, 'common defense against enemies both foreign and domestic'.
Basically, if you get too many poor people, they'll overthrow the government. (Braveheart, or even Mad Max, style).
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you in principle especially when one considers that the VAST majority of fast food workers around here are illegal aliens who can't speak a word of English.
The fact is; what used to be temporary, or part time, jobs for college kids etc. are now careers for certain Americans and a huge mass of illegal aliens. (Think lawn care, fast food, house/office cleaning...). If they're not paid enough money to live on, they become a huge, or - more of a, drain on society.
Last edited:
OP
bricker
Member
Heck, I was just mad my fries were upside down again...
I am loathe to admit......
I'm loathe to admit that this store is in SC.
PS Why should I ever get an education if I'm never going to use it?
If this sign isn't worth $15.00 an hour, then what is it worth?.
I'm loathe to admit that this store is in SC.
PS Why should I ever get an education if I'm never going to use it?
That's because.....
That's because a $15/hr raise at this point in time is an absurd pipe dream. That is very near DOUBLE in this state.
That's because a $15/hr raise at this point in time is an absurd pipe dream. That is very near DOUBLE in this state.
I am not buying that. It is far too much of a legal stretch to my reasoning.
Grey Bearded One
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 51
The times they are a changing. Way back when I was a young un', I was responsible for making sure that I got to my activities. I knew when I had basketball or scouts or a meeting of some kind and I knew that I needed to ask my father or coach or someone for a ride. Things are so different today.
I believe that most kids don't really want to be involved in half of their activities. I base that on the number of parents that tell me that they have to remind and pester their kids to get ready for . . . whatever.
As for chores, my wife and I butted heads over that for years. I expected kids to do what they were told to do and she liked to ask them to do things with no consequences if the chore didn't get done and then she'd do it. I was raised with the military philosophy of "a request is just a politely phrased order." Sadly, most of my kids peers view "chores" as something that their parents do.
Grey Bearded One
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 51
That's been true for years. Thirty plus years ago, when I was a young man, my father and I would spend Saturday mornings doing yardwork/maintenance on the house. At lunchtime he'd say, "Let's go to lunch." At that time only Rax and Wendy's the only fast food joints close by.
One day Dad say, "You know, if we went to [favorite nearby diner] it would only cost a couple bucks more and we'd have table service from a cute waitress." No more fast food.
If I want something fast foodish and I'm not en route, I'll go to Chipotle. $6 for a gigantic burrito made with all fresh ingredients.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
My wife has a job, runs the PTA and drives the kids around. I work two hours away. Fast food is a necessity.
Might seem like I'm bashing you GBO..but I'm not. Seems as though to me what we really have with families today is a lack of discipline with children..yes Virginia..teenagers really are still children. Terrible to have to grow up..but if we don't require our children including those know it all teenagers to accept responsibility for themselves within certain guidelines we end up with these same problems. Yeah...I was also a know it all teenager like most of us were back in the day..but by that time I had already had responsibility instilled in me. Of course I didn't have video games computers cell phones. I did have chores work homework(studies) and I helped with my younger sister. It was required. As in your case I had a problem with my wife asking for things from our children. She now sees the error of her ways. But our daughter...oooo..she is more like me in the way she expects her children to act..and they are really good kids. Both smart and responsible..all of 'em..except the 5 yr old. The oldest turns 21 this coming year and he makes more money than I can imagine working in a service industry. But he works!! Without instilling responsibility what we end up with is people who have no skills and don't seem to know what being responsible for THEMSELVES even means. Unfortunately..as the older generation who brought these youngsters into this world...and didn't make 'em work for what they got....it is OUR fault! BTW I also agree with your father's philosophy just as cheap or close enough to eat at a real restaurant
Last edited:
GatorFarmer
Member
In the U.S., the minimum wage was held Constitutional under the Commerce Clause in 1938. It was part of the New Deal generally credited with lifting the Great Depression.
Various social programs and taxpayer funds pay for clean water, public schools, and all the other niceties that seperate our world from the London of Dickens day.
Places without such niceties exist all over the Third World. They tend to be unpleasant. Whereas places in Western Europe or Scandinavia with even greater social welfare programs have a standard of living equal to or greater than the United States.
The 19th Century was an ugly and brutal place. Ever since the days of Theodore Roosevelt and indeed somewhat before (Sherman AntiTrust Act) it has been generally accepted that the proper role of government includes offering minimum protections for workers. Thus we have OSHA, a min. wage, overtime pay, etc.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
It is also the most expensive part of overhead in just about all situations.
They don't teach economics anymore. Too bad. Hate to say it but if I need a tdactor driver I'm gonna hire the kid who has a strong back and knows how to drive a tractor over a kid with an Ag degree who dosen't. That's why they put a rabbit and a turtle at opposite ends of the throttle
Maddog 521
Member
I wonder if the new $15 people would have to pay taxes?
M3Stuart
Member
If I might quote Hobbes again, this is what life would be like with too many poor people:
"To this war of every man against every man, this also in consequent; that nothing can be unjust. The notions of right and wrong, justice and injustice have there no place. Where there is no common power, there is no law, where no law, no injustice. Force, and fraud, are in war the cardinal virtues.
"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death: and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short." - Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan
I'd pay an extra buck for burger to avoid that...
"To this war of every man against every man, this also in consequent; that nothing can be unjust. The notions of right and wrong, justice and injustice have there no place. Where there is no common power, there is no law, where no law, no injustice. Force, and fraud, are in war the cardinal virtues.
"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death: and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short." - Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan
I'd pay an extra buck for burger to avoid that...
Last edited:
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
As long as we have the internet and porn it's all good.
I make 13 bucks an hour. I've been in my position since 2008 when I made 9 bucks an hour. About a year ago the company I worked for lost the contract and a new company came in so I've had the same job since 2008 but not the same employer.
Let me assure you that money is tight in my home. We don't have cable,we don't have net flicks, we don't go out to eat or to movies, I take my lunch to work and we don't turn on our heat unless it's necessary and we don't buy anything on credit. IOW we live within our means.
I work all the OT I can get and all the holiday shifts they'll give me I never call in and we get by.
Rumor has it that our client has decided to rearm all of our guards if that happens I'll be making 17 an hour which is damn good money for Colorado
(Armor car guards make about 12 bucks here).
Long story short don't give me that BS about not being able to live on less that 15 bucks an hour
Let me assure you that money is tight in my home. We don't have cable,we don't have net flicks, we don't go out to eat or to movies, I take my lunch to work and we don't turn on our heat unless it's necessary and we don't buy anything on credit. IOW we live within our means.
I work all the OT I can get and all the holiday shifts they'll give me I never call in and we get by.
Rumor has it that our client has decided to rearm all of our guards if that happens I'll be making 17 an hour which is damn good money for Colorado
(Armor car guards make about 12 bucks here).
Long story short don't give me that BS about not being able to live on less that 15 bucks an hour
