1866 vs 1873 lever action rifle?

[Hello86]

Hello everyone,

I am an amateur on the subject with questions.

I am interested in purchasing either an 1866 or 1873 lever action rifle, by Uberti or Winchester. I like that they are copies of two historical rifles, hence also the interest.

I do not intend to hunt with it, but the purpose is primarily shooting for fun, plinking with the family and secondarily as a home defense gun.

I would like to ask you, for your opinions and help, to choose which rifle and in which caliber.

There are pros and cons I guess.

First the rifle I am most keen on is without a doubt the 1866 Yellowboy, because it is probably the most beautiful rifle I have ever seen! So plus for the beautiful looks over the 1873, which is also a a beautiful rifle, but nowhere near as beautiful as the 1866 is, in my opinion.

Plus with the 1873, it can shoot both 357 magnum and 38 special, the 1866 can't. And when it comes to choosing which caliber and ammo, when I'm looking at what's cheapest, but also what's effective for home defense.

38 special is cheapest, 357 also quite cheap. 38 special may not be the best option for defense, but the cheapest. The advantage of the 1873, is that I can shoot cheap with 38 special, and use 357 magnum in case of of home defense. On the other hand, surely the risk of over-penetration is high with 1873? So 357 magnum might not be optimal after all? Is maybe 45 Colt or 40-40 better?

If I buy 1866 in 38 special, then it is not possible to shoot 357 magnum.
There are also colt 45 and 40-40 etc, but they are unfortunately so very expensive, even though they might be best for home defense? But if I shoot 38 special, then I can afford more shooting with the family, but then maybe the 1873 is the best compromise?

But then I don't get the most beautiful rifle!

Another thought, what do you think of the 38 special when it comes to shooting from 1866 or 1873, purely for fun? Is it a nice feeling? Is the low recoil an advantage? Or does the low recoil, contribute to it feeling like a ”wimpy” caliber, i.e. does it feel better with a little more physical contact and a little more recoil? I guess this is subjective, but I'm interested in your opinions.

Also, it seems like a lot of fun to shoot black powder as well, but I guess it's more expensive, more risky, more work with reloading etc, but when I chase your footage on youtube,
I love the sound of black powder, it sounds nicer and looks more fun to shoot a regular shot.

What would you advise me to do? How would you go about it?

Grateful for advice and tips.

Thank you.

 

[mauser9]

My dream is the 1873 in 357or 44-40 but also know what you mean concerning the 1866. Love the receiver on that one. Grab the one that appeals the most as they cost too much to have regrets! Think new they go for around $1500 or more. Glad they finally came back with reproductions. Wish Winchester would have done it for those zillion commemoratives they came out with years ago. Would have been period correct at least in the 1866-73 models.

 

[Inusuit]

I have a Uberti 1866 rifle in .45 Colt. Shot thousands of rounds in Cowboy Action competition. Never any failures that were not operator induced.

The rifles and carbines are fairly heavy, so moderate recoil in any caliber. .38 Special in an 1866 would be especially pleasant to shoot.

And perfectly adequate for home defense. Hundreds of police departments relied on .38 Special revolvers from introduction of the caliber in the late 19th century to the introduction of wonder 9mm semi autos in the 1980s.

I have no personal experience, but have heard that some rifles chambered in .357 do not reliably feed .38 Special due to the difference in cartridge length.

Were I you, I would dash out and by a 1866 (beautiful rifle) in .38 Special.

 

[Hello86]

My dream is the 1873 in 357or 44-40 but also know what you mean concerning the 1866. Love the receiver on that one. Grab the one that appeals the most as they cost too much to have regrets! Think new they go for around $1500 or more. Glad they finally came back with reproductions. Wish Winchester would have done it for those zillion commemoratives they came out with years ago. Would have been period correct at least in the 1866-73 models.

Thanks for the info mauser9.

 

[Hello86]

I have a Uberti 1866 rifle in .45 Colt. Shot thousands of rounds in Cowboy Action competition. Never any failures that were not operator induced.

The rifles and carbines are fairly heavy, so moderate recoil in any caliber. .38 Special in an 1866 would be especially pleasant to shoot.

And perfectly adequate for home defense. Hundreds of police departments relied on .38 Special revolvers from introduction of the caliber in the late 19th century to the introduction of wonder 9mm semi autos in the 1980s.

I have no personal experience, but have heard that some rifles chambered in .357 do not reliably feed .38 Special due to the difference in cartridge length.

Were I you, I would dash out and by a 1866 (beautiful rifle) in .38 Special.

Thank you for your answer Inusuit.

What about 38 special for plinking, is it nice with low to almost no recoil? Or is it to little recoil, so that it ruins part of the fun experience with recoil?

I am talking from a "fun factor", the feeling you get from shooting it? I Guess sometimes it can be fun to shoot something with a bit more recoil in it and sometimes something with barely any recoil at all? But it doesn't feel "wimpy" to shoot?

How does shooting the 1866 in 38 special compare to shooting it in 45 colt, or 40-40? Is there really a big difference in feel? It might be subjective and difficult to answer, but I'll ask anyway

 

[AJ]

It sounds as if you would prefer a rifle in.38 Special/.357 Magnum. The .38 Special was used for many years as a target gun in handguns and for police work. The .357 Magnum was used in police guns and as hunting load. Little recoil with the .38 Special and great accuracy. A bit more recoil with the .357 Magnum. Both are good plinking rounds if so desired. Either round will work well for home defense. Nothing wrong with the .45 Colt or the .44-40, just more cost for the ammo and a bit more recoil.

I have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning in .45 Colt [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmf9ypDeGsI[/ame]
Costly to shoot as a plinker, unless you reload, which I do.

 

[Hello86]

It sounds as if you would prefer a rifle in.38 Special/.357 Magnum. The .38 Special was used for many years as a target gun in handguns and for police work. The .357 Magnum was used in police guns and as hunting load. Little recoil with the .38 Special and great accuracy. A bit more recoil with the .357 Magnum. Both are good plinking rounds if so desired. Either round will work well for home defense. Nothing wrong with the .45 Colt or the .44-40, just more cost for the ammo and a bit more recoil.

I have a Pedersoli Colt Lightning in .45 Colt Pedersoli Lightning Pump Action Rifle Woods Walk - YouTube
Costly to shoot as a plinker, unless you reload, which I do.

Great to know, thanks AJ.

What is somewhat confusing to me is that some people think that 38 special through a lever action rifle, gives more knock down power etc due to the longer barrel, while some write that it is probably the opposite, longer barrel worse, better knock down power through 38 special revolver. What do you think about that?

 

[AJ]

Great to know, thanks AJ.

What is somewhat confusing to me is that some people think that 38 special through a lever action rifle, gives more knock down power etc due to the longer barrel, while some write that it is probably the opposite, longer barrel worse, better knock down power through 38 special revolver. What do you think about that?

Have not run them through a chronograph. Though I am sure someone has. The length of the barrel has some to do with it. But for most of our purposes it probably does not matter for plinking, target shooting or home defense. Accuracy is what matters in all three categories.

 

[Hello86]

Have not run them through a chronograph. Though I am sure someone has. The length of the barrel has some to do with it. But for most of our purposes it probably does not matter for plinking, target shooting or home defense. Accuracy is what matters in all three categories.

Good points, thank you.

 

[DR505]

Great to know, thanks AJ.

What is somewhat confusing to me is that some people think that 38 special through a lever action rifle, gives more knock down power etc due to the longer barrel, while some write that it is probably the opposite, longer barrel worse, better knock down power through 38 special revolver. What do you think about that?

There really is no such thing as "knock down" power, especially when talking about such a mild handgun cartridge as the .38 Special. I won't go into it here; this topic has been beat to death on the forums.

I am looking to get the Miroku (Japanese) built Winchester '73 in .45 Colt myself. Since I handload my own ammo, I can make any variety of power for this rifle that I choose, and not be at the whims of the manufacture and supply chains. I had a chance to buy one at the Bass Pro in Spotsylvania, but passed on it for some reason. Haven't seen other in stock anywhere since.

The 1866 is nice, but ever since seeing James Stewart in the movie Winchester '73 way back in the 60's I have wanted one of these. Of course the originals were never made in .45 Colt, but I don't feel like adding .44-40 to my line-up.

 

[Dvus]

The 1866 receiver will not handle the pressure of .357 magnum. The 1873 will handle factory loads, but stout handloads should be avoided. My Italian 1873 popped the side plates loose and locked up the action after 5 rounds of HOT .357 mag. (Loads were within max recommended, but not by much.) After pulling the side plates and removing the internals, then putting everything back together, the rifle still functions as it should. It's days of .357 mag loads are over though. I'm leaving those to my 94.

 

[growr]

I have and use both in SASS matches. The 66 doesn't have the safety lock on the lever. The 73's are the most used in SASS, most often with a short stroke. The speed demons all prefer the 73.

My main match SASS gun is a Uberti 73 in 44-40, back up rifle is either my Dad's 66 from Navy Arms in .38 spl or his Marlin 1894 in .357 magnum.

Either in a .38 spl is not much more than a .22LR.....and just a hoot to go out and shoot.

Can't go wrong with either. Both use the same toggle action, the side plate of the 73 is slightly easier to remove for deep cleaning....

Randy

 

[smithra_66]

Hello everyone,

I am an amateur on the subject with questions.

I am interested in purchasing either an 1866 or 1873 lever action rifle, by Uberti or Winchester. I like that they are copies of two historical rifles, hence also the interest.

I do not intend to hunt with it, but the purpose is primarily shooting for fun, plinking with the family and secondarily as a home defense gun.

I would like to ask you, for your opinions and help, to choose which rifle and in which caliber.

There are pros and cons I guess.

First the rifle I am most keen on is without a doubt the 1866 Yellowboy, because it is probably the most beautiful rifle I have ever seen! So plus for the beautiful looks over the 1873, which is also a a beautiful rifle, but nowhere near as beautiful as the 1866 is, in my opinion.

Plus with the 1873, it can shoot both 357 magnum and 38 special, the 1866 can't. And when it comes to choosing which caliber and ammo, when I'm looking at what's cheapest, but also what's effective for home defense.

38 special is cheapest, 357 also quite cheap. 38 special may not be the best option for defense, but the cheapest. The advantage of the 1873, is that I can shoot cheap with 38 special, and use 357 magnum in case of of home defense. On the other hand, surely the risk of over-penetration is high with 1873? So 357 magnum might not be optimal after all? Is maybe 45 Colt or 40-40 better?

If I buy 1866 in 38 special, then it is not possible to shoot 357 magnum.
There are also colt 45 and 40-40 etc, but they are unfortunately so very expensive, even though they might be best for home defense? But if I shoot 38 special, then I can afford more shooting with the family, but then maybe the 1873 is the best compromise?

But then I don't get the most beautiful rifle!

Another thought, what do you think of the 38 special when it comes to shooting from 1866 or 1873, purely for fun? Is it a nice feeling? Is the low recoil an advantage? Or does the low recoil, contribute to it feeling like a ”wimpy” caliber, i.e. does it feel better with a little more physical contact and a little more recoil? I guess this is subjective, but I'm interested in your opinions.

Also, it seems like a lot of fun to shoot black powder as well, but I guess it's more expensive, more risky, more work with reloading etc, but when I chase your footage on youtube,
I love the sound of black powder, it sounds nicer and looks more fun to shoot a regular shot.

What would you advise me to do? How would you go about it?

Grateful for advice and tips.

Thank you.

I think you should buy the one you think is nicest looking, so that would be the Yellow Boy.

My choice of caliber would be 44/40, but that would require handloading (which, if you're cost conscious, you should definitely start doing!)

I also highly recommend black powder. It's not "risky" at all and is even safer than smokeless powder. It's impossible to blow a gun up with black powder cartridges...you can't fit enough into the case. Not so with smokeless. You can easily overcharge if you're not careful.

All three of those calibers would work great with black powder, although I'm partial to 44/40 since it is bottlenecked and seals the chamber very well.

Regarding your recoil question: either the 66 or the 73 are HEAVY guns. None of these calibers will recoil much, at all.

Regarding home defense: even if you're shooting factory loads, remember with the 38 special it's going to shoot like a 357 magnum out of a handgun. Out of a rifle you get 200-300 fps more, so I wouldn't worry about power for home defense. 38 special would do just fine.

Good luck!

 

[Venom6]

The '66s are set up to shoot .38s. The '73 is set up to shoot .357s, and can cause problems with .38s. The '73 was designed to function with cartridges at or near 1.600" in length. Unlike later lever-actions there is no cartridge stop on either a '66 or a '73. As the action is cycled a round is fed out of the magazine tube onto the carrier. The nose bearing on the next round's base is the only thing keeping it in the mag tube. If the cartridge on the carrier isn't long enough, the base of the next round will come out far enough to be partially on the carrier, causing a jam. Most '73s require a cartridge overall length to be at least 1.450"; depending on the bullet you might have to seat it out of the .38 case to avoid a next-round jam. Some cowboy-action gunsmiths bevel the front edge of the carrier so it will cam the following round back into the tube enough to allow the carrier to lift. This can get tricky.
As mentioned by the poster above, you will likely get 200 or more fps out of the rifle than a revolver, making the .38 in a rifle roughly equal to a .357 in a pistol. Lot of variables (powder type and amount, bullet, barrel lengths).
I find the recoil out of my .38 20" 66 short rifle (octagonal barrel) just right; I know I'm shooting a centerfire but neither the blast nor recoil are in the least objectionable. There is noticeably more recoil from my 20" octagonal Marlin 1894 in .357.
Penetration is more a function of bullet style and weight, and especially velocity) than cartridge. A 158 gr. JSP at 1,000 fps out of a .38 is likely to penetrate more in common building materials than a thin-skin 125 gr hollowpoint at 1800 fps out of the magnum. The lighter, faster hollowpoint expands much more quickly, presenting much greater frontal area and therefore encountering greater resistance and slowing. But again, there are a lot of variables.

 

[Onomea]

Get the 1866 since it is the most aesthetically appealing to you. 38 spl, as others note above, is not a wimpy cartridge. It is a great choice for home defense, as well as plinking or target shooting.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Or does the low recoil, contribute to it feeling like a ”wimpy” caliber, i.e. does it feel better with a little more physical contact and a little more recoil?

Have neither of the levers you mention, but a 24" Rossi 92 in .357. It fully tames recoil of .38/.357, but makes both calibers hit targets noticably faster and harder. So yes, shoots like a .22lr, but the shooting qualities are the fun part. The 24" long barrel of the Rossi is very quiet to shoot, especially the .38spl.
Got a 12ga for "kicks".

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have an older Rossi Model 92 that shoots both 38 Spl and 357 Mag flawlessly. You can even mix/alternate them in the magazine. Good way to detect flinching. On the subject of carbine barrel length affecting cartridge performance, I can give you some info that might apply. Years back, I read an NRA pub review of the then-new Marlin Camp Carbine. They found that most 45ACP loads had higher velocities in the carbine than they achieved in several pistols they tried. The results for the 9mm were the opposite, lower velocities from the carbine barrel than from the pistols they tried.

 

[Inusuit]

Thank you for your answer Inusuit.

What about 38 special for plinking, is it nice with low to almost no recoil? Or is it to little recoil, so that it ruins part of the fun experience with recoil?

I am talking from a "fun factor", the feeling you get from shooting it? I Guess sometimes it can be fun to shoot something with a bit more recoil in it and sometimes something with barely any recoil at all? But it doesn't feel "wimpy" to shoot?

How does shooting the 1866 in 38 special compare to shooting it in 45 colt, or 40-40? Is there really a big difference in feel? It might be subjective and difficult to answer, but I'll ask anyway

As others have noted, the 66 and 73 in rifle form are heavy and dampen perceived recoil so pleasant to shoot in any caliber. In your situation, I would opt for the caliber that's the cheapest to shoot because you want to plink with it. Recoil is irrelevant to my shooting enjoyment and can't imagine some cartridge being "too wimpy. I enjoy shooting .22 LR, .17 HMR, .22 RM. Recoil is neglent on those.

 

[Mike0251]

I own a Miroku Winchester 1873 in 45 colt. It is a beautifully manufactured weapon, light recoil due to the weight of the gun too. I also load my own cartridges. Miroku makes some very nice guns, their quality and workmanship is superb.

 

[DR505]

I own a Miroku Winchester 1873 in 45 colt. It is a beautifully manufactured weapon, light recoil due to the weight of the gun too. I also load my own cartridges. Miroku makes some very nice guns, their quality and workmanship is superb.

I am envious! I should have bought the one specimen I found in the rifle rack several years ago.