.45 ACP and 9mm Luger

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skwchock

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There have been a number of "experts" writing about the .45ACP and the 9mm Luger Parabellum. Specifically, how they enjoy shooting them from their revolvers. However, they all conclude that to shoot a 9mm Luger from a revolver requires the use of a "clip" (half-moon or full moon) so that the 9mm round/case can be extracted from the cylinder. I thought I read about a revolver that had a cylinder that did NOT require a clip for the 9mm Luger Parabellum and this was a relatively new development/design. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the other gun makers to develop/design such a cylinder? Those "clips" are so fragile and are easily bent/warped. This makes the revolver not an EDC revolver.
 
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As far as an EDC gun goes, I remember the CHP doing something along those lines for their new .40 cals years ago. Each pistol was issued with six magazines. Two different mag follower colors in groups of three. One set was for range use. Those got beat up, dropped in the gravel, etc. One set for duty carry. Worked well I am told. There would be no problem with identifying a small number of moon clips that work well, marking them and using them ONLY for serious carry and not routine range use.

Also I remember one revolver (maybe what NYlakesider is talking about) that used spring loaded plungers on fingers on the extractor to hold and eject 9mm cases. Allegedly it worked fine. Never saw one or used one personally.
 
skwchock said:
There have been a number of "experts" writing about the .45ACP and the 9mm Luger Parabellum. Specifically, how they enjoy shooting them from their revolvers. However, they all conclude that to shoot a 9mm Luger from a revolver requires the use of a "clip" (half-moon or full moon) so that the 9mm round/case can be extracted from the cylinder. I thought I read about a revolver that had a cylinder that did NOT require a clip for the 9mm Luger Parabellum and this was a relatively new development/design. Wouldn't it be an advantage for the other gun makers to develop/design such a cylinder? Those "clips" are so fragile and are easily bent/warped. This makes the revolver not an EDC revolver.
Click to expand...

All 9mm revolvers can fire without a clip. They headspace on the mouth. The problem is ejecting them. If they don't just fall out, you'd have to push them out through the front of the cylinder with a rod.

Most clips are pretty durable. It would be hard to break or bend them. I've not seen the gun you're talking about and I'm trying to envision how it would work if it didn't use a clip.
 
I have several revolvers that use moon clips in various calibers. Mine are 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, modified 44 Auto Mag, and 45 ACP.

The moon clips aren't all that fragile. They will bend if you step on them when they are loaded with cases. Moon clips are easy to use if you get the right tools. It's no different than semi-auto shooters having to load magazines. They are the fastest way to reload a revolver, and ensure that all the fired cases are ejected at once. In a match, they insure that you always get all your brass back, not mixed in with other brass. For self defense, the brass is expendable. You will have more important things to worry about.

S&W had a M547 9mm that didn't require moon clips a long time ago, but it was expensive to make, so they went to 9mm with moons. To do this, you have to have some type of retracting extractor for each chamber. There are a few of those out there, I think Charter Arms and Korth have them, but not sure, having never seen any. At any rate, you would probably have to depress the spring loaded extractor to the side for each individual round to get them in the chamber. That would be slow and cumbersome to me.

Thankfully, there are a lot of choices, so there's something for everyone.
 
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The 38 Short Colt is essentially a rimmed 9mm, being the same case length and volume. I shoot tons of them on moons in 38/357 guns. They can be used in a 9mm chamber, but the bottom of the case bulges out a bit, as the 9mm is larger at the bottom than a 38 case. This works if you reload them with 9mm dies, and don't resize with 38 size die.

You would still need to use moon clips to get the right headspace if the cylinder was cut for them. One way or another, headspace may or may not be a problem, depending on how the cylinder was initially set up.
 
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Years ago, Federal introduced a rimmed 9mm 115 grain, loaded pretty hot.
Seemed like a good idea until they found out that these would chamber and fire in old 38S&W guns.
End of 9mm rimmed.

Back on topic, I shoot lots of 9mm and 45 Auto in my revolvers.
never bent a clip.
As stated, use the right tools and there will be no problems.
986.jpg

625.jpg
 
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I don't like moon clips. Just a personal preference. Many people love them, including one of my friends. I've never used the three that came with my 640 Pro.

I love my Charter Arms Pitbull, designed to shoot .45ACP without moon clips.
 
hyena said:
I don't like moon clips. Just a personal preference. Many people love them, including one of my friends. I've never used the three that came with my 640 Pro.

I love my Charter Arms Pitbull, designed to shoot .45ACP without moon clips.
Click to expand...

How do you extract the cases afterwards? Does the CA have some trick up its sleeve to make the extractor grab the cases?
 
Some folks seem to think the moonclips are made out of glass. They’re not they are steel. As such, they can bend and break, but it takes a lot of effort to do that. I’ve got moonclips that are close to 50 years old that still work.. I also have clips that were bent and I have straightened. I also have clips that I’ve just thrown out. They are expendable.

It is all a matter of what you want to do. You can embrace them for what they are or you can bellyache about what they’re not.

Kevin
 
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There have been several revolver extractor designs which do not require clips to extract fired rimless cases.

Regarding the 9mm Federal cartridge, I am reasonably certain that no one but Federal ever loaded it, and full boxes are rare. Back in the mid-teens, I ran across four full boxes at a gun show. I really wanted them, but the seller was firm at $100/box. I debated with myself for quire a while before walking away. I haven't quite forgiven myself for not buying them. I do not remember seeing a Charter Arms Revolver chambered for that caliber. I suspect that very few were made, and one would sell for a very high price to a Charter collector. I suspect that either .38 Short Colt or .38 S&W cases could be easily formed into 9mm Federal (or close enough) by anyone owning a Charter Arms revolver.
 
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