jlrhiner
US Veteran
Good grief. Is this thread still alive?
You guys & your silly caliber debates....
I say....
I think I pretty well killed it.
.45 ACP vs. everything else
- Thread starter PALADIN85020
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Catshooter
Member
There's a lot of truth in what Mr. Turner says. When you have a more limited capacity it can make one be more precise.
If I had to go out and face the line backer, no question, I'd take the 45. Even back when I had convinced myself to carry the 9mm, I still would have taken the 45.
I was deeply in love with the 357, specifically a two and a half inch 686 for a field piece. All many of wonderful atributes. Then I fired mine (one round) in the middle of a flat eleven acre bowl with no ear protection and dang near dropped it. It was exactly like an ice pick stuck into each ear. Unbelievable. In the field you won't always be wearing your ear protection you know.
I did the same experiment with my Shorty 45 with it's 3.75 inches of barrel. Wow, how different! A tiny ringing in my right ear that lasted for about 10 seconds, then nothing.
It's the 45 for me lads. It'll do it all for me. From the pocket (American Derringer in 45 ACP/AR) as my 'get off me gun' to my new FN FNP in 45. Fifteen rounds, slightly bigger than a 1911 (weighs an ounce more) house gun. And of course sixguns in it too.
A 260 grain Keith at 900 fps in easy in the sixgun and will do everything I need a sixgun to do. If I needed .44 magnum power I'd go to the 45 Colt for even more power than the 44.
Color me happy!
Cat
If I had to go out and face the line backer, no question, I'd take the 45. Even back when I had convinced myself to carry the 9mm, I still would have taken the 45.
I was deeply in love with the 357, specifically a two and a half inch 686 for a field piece. All many of wonderful atributes. Then I fired mine (one round) in the middle of a flat eleven acre bowl with no ear protection and dang near dropped it. It was exactly like an ice pick stuck into each ear. Unbelievable. In the field you won't always be wearing your ear protection you know.
I did the same experiment with my Shorty 45 with it's 3.75 inches of barrel. Wow, how different! A tiny ringing in my right ear that lasted for about 10 seconds, then nothing.
It's the 45 for me lads. It'll do it all for me. From the pocket (American Derringer in 45 ACP/AR) as my 'get off me gun' to my new FN FNP in 45. Fifteen rounds, slightly bigger than a 1911 (weighs an ounce more) house gun. And of course sixguns in it too.
A 260 grain Keith at 900 fps in easy in the sixgun and will do everything I need a sixgun to do. If I needed .44 magnum power I'd go to the 45 Colt for even more power than the 44.
Color me happy!
Cat
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
jlrhiner
US Veteran
I was actually saying a flamethrower trumps 9mm OR .45...
And so does that howitzer in my backyard. There's always something better. Everyone has a way to get around the scenario to justfy their choice.
But really now, with everything else being the same, which caliber goes out the door with you?
I would think more with Glock 9mms than M1911s and .45acp??
Good grief. Is this thread still alive?
You guys & your silly caliber debates....
I say....
I think I pretty well killed it.
Really!
If you do not carry a 10 gauge then you are under gunned!
I think there are other consideration than caliber that people do not look at in these type of threads.
The popularity of the original 1911, besides the size of caliber was it's reliability. You could drowned it, you could bury it in mud, you could drag it threw the dirt and freeze it in the snow. All those conditions were found in all the wars we have fought! After all the above torture tests, the 1911 will still fire. Granted you may have to off hand the slide once or twice but it will run the magazine.
You can not say the same for a lot of the popular 9's, .40's and 10's. Also revolvers do not fare well when exposed to extreme conditions.
Most of us, will never expose our guns to the above extreme conditions listed, whether during compitition or CCW, though lint might be a problem.
The popularity of the original 1911, besides the size of caliber was it's reliability. You could drowned it, you could bury it in mud, you could drag it threw the dirt and freeze it in the snow. All those conditions were found in all the wars we have fought! After all the above torture tests, the 1911 will still fire. Granted you may have to off hand the slide once or twice but it will run the magazine.
You can not say the same for a lot of the popular 9's, .40's and 10's. Also revolvers do not fare well when exposed to extreme conditions.
Most of us, will never expose our guns to the above extreme conditions listed, whether during compitition or CCW, though lint might be a problem.
Something new! That's one I hadn't seen in the on-going .45ACP vs. you-name-it opinion war. Very good!
I have never really understood this controversy. I guess it has made for lively reading since I was a boy, and probably some time before that. There were, and still are, always plenty of responses whenever the subject comes up - but I don't think a single mind is ever changed.
I think reality is that John just wanted to show off some of his favorite guns.
It's not a game
It's my house and my door and my guns, why can't I deal with it any way I see fit with any gun I've got?
I'll put limitations on what I use when pigs fly
It's my house and my door and my guns, why can't I deal with it any way I see fit with any gun I've got?
I'll put limitations on what I use when pigs fly
jlrhiner
US Veteran
It's my house and my door and my guns, why can't I deal with it any way I see fit with any gun I've got?
I'll put limitations on what I use when pigs fly
You have trouble with the "Let's play a game" part, don'tcha?
Why do you think that is JimmyJ?
venomballistics
Member
1911 part coverage is "well beyond thorough" It is not only one of the most maintainable sidearms, its the most customizable by far.
9mm is an abundant caliber, without question. However, when availability AND maximum effectiveness are both considered, 45 wins
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
A few observations...
and these are only my views, so...
The spec op guys want 45's because they need something to make up for the putrid M-16, call it what you will.
There is a name recognition factor associated with 9mm's. A "German Luger" is a bad bad piece, as is a "Browning Hi-Power." Not so much with an "EZ 9" (insert your own examples).
As to 9's bouncing off of clothing, that, for me, is right up there with the actual congressional testimony after Waco by ATF/FBI that they used 9mm's "so no one would get hurt," and that, "CS Gas is OK for kids." Yea, really. The problem I read associted with the 9mm by military and poice (FBI) was OVER penatration; rounds ziping right through. Hence the development of the LPJHP-The limmited penatraion jacketed hollow point 9mm. But when it comes to choice, there are many cases where folks in combat zones chose 9's because of the Platform as much as the bullet. In SEA the CIA gun was a Hi-Power. Many in MAC-SOG liked it, and the Sweedish K sub gun as well. Remember that in combat, gaining and maintaining fire superiority is paramount, especially in situations where there is the reallity of ambush and/or folks whose beliefs/motivations we may not ascribe to, but to which we must agree that, at the very least, they believe, and as a result will run right at you while absorbing all of the fire that there is, including air and artillery, so the number of rounds you can put out before stopping to reload is a definite factor. Being able to direct a high volume of fire on a paricular area is a tactic that is employed very effectively.
The likelyhood is that I am going to find a 7.62X39 or a 9mm on an urban battlefield as often, or more so, than anything else.
But hey, you guys are just shootin' the breeze right? Balistics is a science, one that the FBI actually knows something about, and they chose the .40 S&W, so... It's like a computer repair guy I used to know used to tell me when I described the problem I was having. He would say, "It's the cat behind the mouse." And that applies, in my view, with the subject at hand, but lets have some more fun. I'm going to move some of my house plants over in front of my monitor so that they can soak up some of this good free fertilizer. Flapjack.
and these are only my views, so...
The spec op guys want 45's because they need something to make up for the putrid M-16, call it what you will.
There is a name recognition factor associated with 9mm's. A "German Luger" is a bad bad piece, as is a "Browning Hi-Power." Not so much with an "EZ 9" (insert your own examples).
As to 9's bouncing off of clothing, that, for me, is right up there with the actual congressional testimony after Waco by ATF/FBI that they used 9mm's "so no one would get hurt," and that, "CS Gas is OK for kids." Yea, really. The problem I read associted with the 9mm by military and poice (FBI) was OVER penatration; rounds ziping right through. Hence the development of the LPJHP-The limmited penatraion jacketed hollow point 9mm. But when it comes to choice, there are many cases where folks in combat zones chose 9's because of the Platform as much as the bullet. In SEA the CIA gun was a Hi-Power. Many in MAC-SOG liked it, and the Sweedish K sub gun as well. Remember that in combat, gaining and maintaining fire superiority is paramount, especially in situations where there is the reallity of ambush and/or folks whose beliefs/motivations we may not ascribe to, but to which we must agree that, at the very least, they believe, and as a result will run right at you while absorbing all of the fire that there is, including air and artillery, so the number of rounds you can put out before stopping to reload is a definite factor. Being able to direct a high volume of fire on a paricular area is a tactic that is employed very effectively.
The likelyhood is that I am going to find a 7.62X39 or a 9mm on an urban battlefield as often, or more so, than anything else.
But hey, you guys are just shootin' the breeze right? Balistics is a science, one that the FBI actually knows something about, and they chose the .40 S&W, so... It's like a computer repair guy I used to know used to tell me when I described the problem I was having. He would say, "It's the cat behind the mouse." And that applies, in my view, with the subject at hand, but lets have some more fun. I'm going to move some of my house plants over in front of my monitor so that they can soak up some of this good free fertilizer. Flapjack.
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You have trouble with the "Let's play a game" part, don'tcha?
No, but just seeing things as it applies in the real world as opposed to the world of make believe.
1) Each of us has already decided what handguns we are going to use.
2)If we are smart we are going to know when to reach for something more than a handgun.
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Ahh yes. The PEBKAC error.
Problem
Exists
Between
Keyboard
And
Chair
Should I be DQ'd from this discussion? The sad fact is, I don't actually own a 9mm that is anything more than a range toy. I bought it so I'd have something to play with while the wife was shooting her SIG. Darned if I'm gonna load a bunch of ammo & not get to shoot any of it!
FWIW I don't own a 10mm Kurtz either...
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ChattanoogaPhil
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dcxplant
Member
....ahh how all of these discussions always crack me up.
Inside of 7 yards with a good quality expanding bullet in a round loaded to max, place the shot and down they go from 380 to 500. Pick your poison.
Single stack is no sweat for a civilian; they don't tend to be in high round count firefights. Mil and po'lice, well, 12, 13 or 15 is better than 8....just sayin'. Me? .40 does a good job of balancing omph with a good round count.
Velocity is king for doing damage, and in my world the 40 strikes me as a good compromise for the velocity vs diameter choice.
Being human (means emotional), we'll pick our favorite and cheer-lead it up to anyone that will listen, or even get red-faced and hurl insults at anyone that does not agree. Which explains my amusment
As for the cracked up lineman, I'd call in a MARSOC unit!! Ooo-Rah!
Inside of 7 yards with a good quality expanding bullet in a round loaded to max, place the shot and down they go from 380 to 500. Pick your poison.
Single stack is no sweat for a civilian; they don't tend to be in high round count firefights. Mil and po'lice, well, 12, 13 or 15 is better than 8....just sayin'. Me? .40 does a good job of balancing omph with a good round count.
Velocity is king for doing damage, and in my world the 40 strikes me as a good compromise for the velocity vs diameter choice.
Being human (means emotional), we'll pick our favorite and cheer-lead it up to anyone that will listen, or even get red-faced and hurl insults at anyone that does not agree. Which explains my amusment
As for the cracked up lineman, I'd call in a MARSOC unit!! Ooo-Rah!
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Interesting reading and fun debate, I went through an easily concealable gun phase, but I got over it when I saw how 9mm just did not do the job! However, since a 9mm shot to the head recently did not work. I carry in this order 99% according to time of the year. 45 # 1 ACP, # 2 40 S&W, & # 3 357 mag. All my bullets penetrate at 12” to 14”. Once in a great while a 642 makes it as backup gun, rarely. BTW the 357 mag rhino is almost always my current backup. Elmer Keith, “never be under gunned”. 9mm, 380, and others I Suppose met the first rule, have a gun!
My go to is 45 ACP in one of 4 different platforms. I am waiting for S&W to produce a bottom cylinder revolver.
My Rhino never comes off target for 6 rounds in 1.2 seconds, Bet S&W can do it better. Give me a 45 Colt S&W with a bottom feed cylinder.
My go to is 45 ACP in one of 4 different platforms. I am waiting for S&W to produce a bottom cylinder revolver.
My Rhino never comes off target for 6 rounds in 1.2 seconds, Bet S&W can do it better. Give me a 45 Colt S&W with a bottom feed cylinder.
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