.45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing?

[Riverboys]

What's Zero 9mm worth? Zero. Local Dicks has .45 and .38
Zip on 9mm.
Any caliber is the best caliber if you have enough of it to shoot.

 

[AJ]

Who on here thinks the government is made up of the best and the brightest? The best and brightest go private because that is where the money is. Go to the dmv or the post office of you think differently and evaluate.
Just because the fbi thinks something like the 9 mm is better does nothing for me. Bigger is always better. I often carry a 9mm Due to size but if I knew I was going to be in a fight , my 1911 would be my choice. 20 years of uspsa competition is responsible for that. I do carry a 1911 when I can conceal it ok.

I too, much prefer the M1911 in .45 ACP. At one time the FBI went to a 10 MM for more penetration. Then they found out a lot of their agents could not handle it, so back to the 9 MM.

 

[sigp220.45]

I too, much prefer the M1911 in .45 ACP. At one time the FBI went to a 10 MM for more penetration. Then they found out a lot of their agents could not handle it, so back to the 9 MM.

Not true. Nobody had trouble with handling the 10mm, but there were problems with the 1076 pistol itself. It was recalled. By then the .40 had come along and served ably for the next 20 years. The change back to the 9mm happened because the ammo is cheaper.

I was there. FBI SA from 1991-2015.

 

[AJ]

Not true. Nobody had trouble with handling the 10mm, but there were problems with the 1076 pistol itself. It was recalled. By then the .40 had come along and served ably for the next 20 years. The change back to the 9mm happened because the ammo is cheaper.

I was there. FBI SA from 1991-2015.

Guess the agents that ran the Firearms Instructor's Course were lying to me when I attended their course.Their story was smaller male agents and most of the women had trouble with the recoil.

 

[pasound]

I like my Speer 45ACP Gold Dot G2 230gr JHP+P. Shoots to POI in my RIA 45 and my Ruger American 45.

 

[glenwolde]

In my experience it tends to be very accurate. Of course some of that depends on the weapon but in general I find the .45 more accurate than the 9mm. Not that there's not very accurate 9mm's out there, just that in aggregate I'd bet on the average .45 beating out the average 9mm.

Plus I like big bullets, I cannot lie....

 

[dogdoc]

In my experience it tends to be very accurate. Of course some of that depends on the weapon but in general I find the .45 more accurate than the 9mm. Not that there's not very accurate 9mm's out there, just that in aggregate I'd bet on the average .45 beating out the average 9mm.

Plus I like big bullets, I cannot lie....

Agree 100 percent. I handload and group loads a lot. Seems much easier to get good groups with 45 acp loads especially with cast bullets.

 

[Stroker468]

My uncle was a Marine in the Korean war(conflict). He was in the battle of Chosin Reservoir. As he told the story, he and his partner were clearing a tunnel when a Chinese soldier jumped up from behind a table. He pulled the trigger on his rile but it didn’t fire. His partner, now behind him, reached over his shoulder and shot the enemy soldier ... with his .45. My uncle couldn’t hear out of his right ear for a couple of days, but he lived to tell the story.

I love my 1911’s. Capacity issue solved: ParaOrdnance double stack models.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I think the original OP is a troll and just wanted to see how far he could stir the pot. And stir it he did.

 

[CH4]

Doesn’t the FBI HRT carry custom Springfield Armory Professionals?

 

[Mule Packer]

Golly, I'm surprised this thread has gone on for so long.

C'mon. Let's face facts. The .45 acp was designed for one purpose and one purpose only. It was designed as a man stopper. Period.

If it works in that capacity, as it seems to have for many individuals for over one hundred years...Great! Like I said, that's what it was designed for. If you don't feel that it works in that capacity and you prefer something different, fine. That's your choice.

'Nuff said.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Golly, I'm surprised this thread has gone on for so long.

C'mon. Let's face facts. The .45 acp was designed for one purpose and one purpose only. It was designed as a man stopper. Period.

If it works in that capacity. Great! Like I said, that's what it was designed for. If you don't feel that it works in that capacity and you prefer something different, fine. That's your choice.

'Nuff said.

And it earned it'd reputation with hard ball ammo......Not fancy hollow points or plus P ammo.

 

[SquarePizza]

One thing always stood out for me from Jim Cirillo's books about his days in the stake out squad.

He focused a lot on bullet contour and a wide and sharp meplate; writing that when a bullet struck the bone, especially the skull, at an angle other than 90 degrees, it would tend to deflect and ride the contour of the bone. Jim was a proponent of revolvers for their ability to have a wide/sharp WC or SWC, or single loading a wad cutter in the 1911 as the first round, followed by the widest profiles that would feed from the magazine after that first shot.

One thing that I think is nice about the 45 is that it offers the best chance of a wide nose vs the more sharply tapering profiles in 9mm.

Of course, I am writing this as a lover of the 45 GAP, but its close enough for me. =)

 

[Echo40]

I think the original OP is a troll and just wanted to see how far he could stir the pot. And stir it he did.

While I appreciate the complement that you think I'm so clever as to devise such a dedicated, long-term attempt at provoking a caliber war, all the while playing it extremely cool, carefully avoiding saying anything overtly inflammatory and throwing folks off my trail by repeatedly discouraged other posters from engaging in any arguements over calibers or otherwise responding to inflammatory posts made by others who clearly were trying to start something.

However, I am neither that malicious nor that clever. Besides, if my intent were to get folks riled up, then evidently I have failed miserably because despite your assertions, the thread has remained quite civil since it was posted.

That being said, I tend to speak from the heart, have some rather strong and potentially abrasive opinions on a variety of things which in turn results in folks getting the wrong idea about me and my intentions, so I don't blame you for having that impression of me.
However, such is the unfortunate cost of being an open person and truly speaking your mind in a frank, unapologetic manner in a world filled with many folks who are more concerned about acceptance, who tend to self-censor themselves somewhat, softening their words to avoid offending others and being as agreeable as possible. Personally, I would rather be 100% honest, and whether folks choose to love or hate me for my opinions, at least everyone involved is being honest.

So yeah, I'm not trolling, never was, and find no amusement whatsoever in the frustration of others. The thread title is a reference to an old Vietnam-era song titled "War" by Edwin Star, with the lyrics "War, huh, yeah. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" Initially, I had assumed that said song was well known enough that folks would recognize it both as a reference to the song as well as the .45 ACP's reputation in military service, thus making it clearly sarcastic, but evidently I was wrong, which gave certain folks such as yourself the wrong idea.
However, if you actually read through the entire thread or otherwise had been present for all of it as it happened, you would see that it is not in fact a troll thread, never was, and never will be.

So in the future when reading my threads, try to do so with an open mind, and don't jump to conclusions that I'm intentionally trying to offend anyone just because I don't play it safe with my opinions or adopt a Politically Correct Persona of someone who has no deep feelings, no polarizing opinions, and no ideals just so that I can surround myself with people who will agree with most of my insipid, bland, overly generalized, faux unassuming statements. As hard as it may be to believe in a world so filled with dishonesty, deceit, and illusion, I'm real, and as unfortunate as it may be, that which is reality isn't always pleasant or agreeable.

Have a nice day.

 

[Flattop5]

Late to the party, but:

To all the people who are stupidly "running down" the great .45 ACP cartridge:

If you continue to "run down" the .45 ACP, I'll have to denounce you. And let me tell you something, my fine furry friends, there's no worse fate than being denounced by Flattop5. Your friends will abandon you. Your job offers will dry up. Your pension will be canceled. Your neighbors, and your cat, will ignore you. Even your mistresses will stop calling you (well, most of them, anyway). In short, your life will become a very sad, very tragic place. So, if I were you, I'd lay off the negative comments about the .45 ACP. Don't make me denounce you. The last guy I denounced? He lives in a trailer in Cleveland now, and works in a taco shop (he was a corporate CEO in NYC). Need I say more? Yeeaahh...

---------------

 

[IAM Rand]

Not sure if anyone here has thought about this WWI soldier but, he would most certainly disagree with anyone that believes that the 45 has lost its luster. Sgt. York killed 6 German soldiers that were charging at him by shooting them turkey style, from the back to the front.

If it is good enough for Alvin then it is certainly good enough for me.

Thanks Sarg

 

[Stroker468]

While I appreciate the complement that you think I'm so clever as to devise such a dedicated, long-term attempt at provoking a caliber war, all the while playing it extremely cool, carefully avoiding saying anything overtly inflammatory and throwing folks off my trail by repeatedly discouraged other posters from engaging in any arguements over calibers or otherwise responding to inflammatory posts made by others who clearly were trying to start something.

However, I am neither that malicious nor that clever. Besides, if my intent were to get folks riled up, then evidently I have failed miserably because despite your assertions, the thread has remained quite civil since it was posted.

That being said, I tend to speak from the heart, have some rather strong and potentially abrasive opinions on a variety of things which in turn results in folks getting the wrong idea about me and my intentions, so I don't blame you for having that impression of me.
However, such is the unfortunate cost of being an open person and truly speaking your mind in a frank, unapologetic manner in a world filled with many folks who are more concerned about acceptance, who tend to self-censor themselves somewhat, softening their words to avoid offending others and being as agreeable as possible. Personally, I would rather be 100% honest, and whether folks choose to love or hate me for my opinions, at least everyone involved is being honest.

So yeah, I'm not trolling, never was, and find no amusement whatsoever in the frustration of others. The thread title is a reference to an old Vietnam-era song titled "War" by Edwin Star, with the lyrics "War, huh, yeah. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!" Initially, I had assumed that said song was well known enough that folks would recognize it both as a reference to the song as well as the .45 ACP's reputation in military service, thus making it clearly sarcastic, but evidently I was wrong, which gave certain folks such as yourself the wrong idea.
However, if you actually read through the entire thread or otherwise had been present for all of it as it happened, you would see that it is not in fact a troll thread, never was, and never will be.

So in the future when reading my threads, try to do so with an open mind, and don't jump to conclusions that I'm intentionally trying to offend anyone just because I don't play it safe with my opinions or adopt a Politically Correct Persona of someone who has no deep feelings, no polarizing opinions, and no ideals just so that I can surround myself with people who will agree with most of my insipid, bland, overly generalized, faux unassuming statements. As hard as it may be to believe in a world so filled with dishonesty, deceit, and illusion, I'm real, and as unfortunate as it may be, that which is reality isn't always pleasant or agreeable.

Have a nice day.

As per your verbiage above, being real, honest, possibly abrasive, speaking from the heart,... this is at least the 2nd post of apology, clarification, rationalization, defense, ...you’ve had to make in as many days.

Maybe it’s not “us”.

And yes. I am self censoring(quite a bit, actually). Most consider this THINKING BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

Try it....if this concept doesn’t “fly over your head”(your words)

 

[18DAI]

Since the OP wants experiences and an opinion, I will opine. 20 years as an Investigator working Robbery/Homicide and Crimes against persons, I worked almost 200 gunshot wound homicides. And I don't know how many Assualt with a deadly weapon cases where shots were exchanged, but nobody died.

My takeaway? Shot placement. Made me a card carrying member of the shot placement school. I have seen 2nd place winners killed with everything from 22 to 12 guage. The ones that were hit somewhere vital, died. The ones who weren't, went to the hospital and then in some cases to prison.

My takeaway on caliber? Bigger is better, generally. Folks hit with 22, 25, 380, 38, 9mm usually were still alive at the scene and went to the hospital - where many survived after medical intervention. Not all. But the majority. Shot placement, again. A 22 through the eye socket is extremely effective.

And we noticed that the vast majority - not all - of those hit with 357, 40, 45 and shotgun blasts, went to the morgue. Again, shot placement was a primary consideration. So was the use of JHP vs ball. The homeys most available ammo was 9mm WWB. It was not under lock and key - at first - at the local Walmart, so they stole it for their stolen guns. And evidently they stole a lot of it. Lots of them survived poor hits from WWB ball.

We carried 45s on duty. Because we dealt with felons. In our experience and opinion based on observation, 45 and 12 guage worked best to put down miscreants. If we expected a problem we had the 870 and later the 590A1 in hand.

For every day work we carried S&W 4506-1, 4566, ect. Off duty many of us had small 9mms or J-frames. When small reliable 45s came along, Colt Defender, 4513TSW, G30, many of us went to those instead.

Nothing wrong with a 9mm. But you do have to be more selective in ammo selection. Especially out of a short barrel. And yes, the manufacturers have improved the 9mm round. And when they did they improved all the other rounds they make too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the FBI who declared 9mm ineffective a couple of decades ago? Forgive me if I don't pay attention when a Federal agency declares it to be deadly again. Too many beuracrats and bean counters involved in Federal agencies for me to put any stock in anything they have to say.

So, carry whatever you can get a fast accurate hit with. For me, thats a few different models of 45 and 9mm. But my personal preference is 45. And when I can no longer shoot 45 quickly and accurately, I will carry a small single stack 9mm. With no worries.

Choose what works best for YOU! Regards 18DAI

 

[ispcapt]

Guess the agents that ran the Firearms Instructor's Course were lying to me when I attended their course.Their story was smaller male agents and most of the women had trouble with the recoil.

Here's why I really doubt that statement. If you knew the development of the FBI 10mm then you would know why that can't be true.
The 10mm Lite round was developed 1 year before the FBI even put out a request for purchase of 10mm guns. What does that mean? That means when the 10mm guns were placed in service the 10mm Lite was already determined to be their issued load a year prior. The full power 10mm round was not their service round. The 10mm Lite load equalled to the .40 round. A .40 round in a 1076 size and weight gun is a creampuff to shoot.
And I know John Hall didn't tell you that nor anyone else in the FTU in the mid 90s.
And if you know John Hall he's hardly a big guy. He didn't have trouble shooting a full power 10mm. It was his personally owned 10mm they used developing the 10mm Lite load.

 

[AJ]

Here's why I really doubt that statement. If you knew the development of the FBI 10mm then you would know why that can't be true.
The 10mm Lite round was developed 1 year before the FBI even put out a request for purchase of 10mm guns. What does that mean? That means when the 10mm guns were placed in service the 10mm Lite was already determined to be their issued load a year prior. The full power 10mm round was not their service round. The 10mm Lite load equalled to the .40 round. A .40 round in a 1076 size and weight gun is a *****cat to shoot.
And I know John Hall didn't tell you that nor anyone else in the FTU in the mid 90s.

Doubt all you want. But that is what we were told. Probably was Comey that told us..........