.45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing?
- Thread starter Echo40
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Buick
Member
I have a friend who was a marine infantryman in Vietnam, and told me of one fight where he and his buddy in the next hole were gleefully celebrating the efficiency of the .45 1911 DURING the battle. His buddy was armed with a 1911 and shot SEVERAL enemy which had penetrated their position.
There is no such thing as stopping power.
But IIRC, many European police forces carried the 7.65 (.32ACP) and stepped up to the 9mm because it "was more effective." However, they DID stop there.
I don't know that we have to "justify" the .45 ACP. It has great historical value, did the job it was intended to, and still does- probably better than it did originally due to better bullets. Anyway, most of us accept that handguns are lacking in "stopping power" anyway, so for serious social purposes it really boils down to capacity, and that mostly for LEOs.
And since owning guns isn't all about defending yourself, it's just fun to shoot. 'Nuf said.
snowman.45
Member
I started law enforcement with a revolver. When we finally adopted a semi-auto a few years later, it was the new S&W 645. I also carried a 1911 when assigned to an undercover narcotics unit for a time, and later a Glock 21. When we had the revolvers, we carried .357 magnum ammo. The .45's were JHPs. It should be noted that virtually none of us would carry 9mm in those days because of perceived ineffectiveness based on shootings where multiple hits (one upwards of 30 rounds) failed to stop the bad guy. Over-penetration was common, along with lack of proper expansion (refer to the 9mm Silvertip).
Now, with all of that out of the way, my preference has always been .45 ACP. I grew up in a military family and had a father who firmly believed the 1911 and .45 ACP were the best there was. Over time, technological and ballistic advancements brought the effectiveness of 9mm up to an acceptable level. Us "old cops" began to grudgingly accept them, with the right loadings, but still clung to our .45s, particularly 1911s among my friends. The one thing I always remember from those days was while in a class with Clint Smith, there were a number of Sheriff's Deputies who were issued S&W 659s in 9mm. They were making fun of my new-fangled Glock 21 (as was Clint, it not being a 1911). I asked Clint to explain to the Deputies why he carried a .45 ACP. Not a direct quote, but his response was something akin to, ".45 makes bigger holes, bigger holes leak more fluid). Clint also told us that .45 FMJ was his preferred carry because 9mm had to expand to be effective; .45 ACP didn't need to.
Now, with all of that out of the way, my preference has always been .45 ACP. I grew up in a military family and had a father who firmly believed the 1911 and .45 ACP were the best there was. Over time, technological and ballistic advancements brought the effectiveness of 9mm up to an acceptable level. Us "old cops" began to grudgingly accept them, with the right loadings, but still clung to our .45s, particularly 1911s among my friends. The one thing I always remember from those days was while in a class with Clint Smith, there were a number of Sheriff's Deputies who were issued S&W 659s in 9mm. They were making fun of my new-fangled Glock 21 (as was Clint, it not being a 1911). I asked Clint to explain to the Deputies why he carried a .45 ACP. Not a direct quote, but his response was something akin to, ".45 makes bigger holes, bigger holes leak more fluid). Clint also told us that .45 FMJ was his preferred carry because 9mm had to expand to be effective; .45 ACP didn't need to.
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Didn't Jeff Cooper like RNFP for the same reason?
snowman.45
Member
I think so. Could be where Clint got that.
4thAlabama
Member
45 ACP
Never having shot anyone with either the 9mm or 45 ACP, I should probably stay quiet, but what fun would that be? Modern bullet design might make the 9mm the equal to the 45, but as a soldier limited to FMJ ammo, my confidence level would be much higher with the 45.
Never having shot anyone with either the 9mm or 45 ACP, I should probably stay quiet, but what fun would that be? Modern bullet design might make the 9mm the equal to the 45, but as a soldier limited to FMJ ammo, my confidence level would be much higher with the 45.
oldsalt444
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The military has an abundance of 9mm Berettas. Yet when the Marine Corps Special Ops needed a good offensive handgun, they asked for a 45.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
AJ
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KSDeputy
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When my Sheriff's Office changed from the model 66 .357 magnum to the model 645, I learned all about the new pistol. I liked it, and sold several revolvers to buy a few .45 pistols. Ultimately, I kept the generation 3 pistols, and replaced the revolvers. Shortly before I retired they changed to the new 4506. When you retire, they give you the service pistol, so I had a 4506 with 50 rounds through it ( one range qualification ). I cleaned it well and put it in the safe. I kept two alloy frame pistols, and have carried my CS 45 for over twenty years. I have no reason to change. I am well pleased with the pistol, and the caliber. I do carry 165 gr. Hydra Shok loads in enough loaded magazines to have 25 rounds at the ready.
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Just now came back and went through this post and thread again. Just a few thoughts. The merits of the .45 ACP are multiple. In any loading, it is effective for range use and SD/HD. Some loadings are more useful. It shines for range use. Holes in targets are easy to see. A good H&G 68 will cut a very clean hole in paper. It can be down loaded to powder puff level for target shooting, etc. It can be loaded up to ball to the wall levels for shooting ... whatever. Brass is easy to find. It is a easy cartridge for reloading either single stage or progressive. It is chambered in a very broad variety of pistols and revolvers. It offers power that is useful w/o being so excessive as to be unpleasant for long strings of fire. Its relevance today is indisputable for those who enjoy the 1911 series of pistols, for those who enjoy reloading, for those who enjoy the history and mystery of the round, for those who have an emotional connection with the round and the pistols for which it has been/is chambered. At present a nicely customized RIA 1911-A1 is lying on the couch to my left. It is loaded with plain Jane 230 gr. ball. To my knowledge, this pistol has not ever failed to do anything at all. It has feed and fired everything ever loaded into it. I shot it till the front sight got loose. A new front sight was fitted. It didn't even require a change in sight settings. One day when I can the pistol will have a wide beavertail safety fitted, a commander hammer and a new sear to fit the hammer. I would trust this relatively inexpensive pistol with my life ... even the life of my loved ones. Sincerely. bruce.
If the 45 acp is so worthless why do the sub caliber guys spend so much time trying to prove it. Why has it stayed around for well over 100 years. Just how many people has it killed and just how many more is it going to take to convince the sub caliber guys. If the 9mm is better than that 11.5 mm, why isn't a 6.5mm hand gun even better?
I do not see this as being any kind of argument. The 9mm is a better bet for the average person to learn to shoot well for all the reasons given in this thread. We need to remember that not all cops, agents, etc are gun people and to them the gun is nothing more than a tool. For those of us in this forum, we are gun folks with many of us having many years of shooting experience as well as shooting know how. For us the 45 is always a better choice because it offers added insurance for anything we want to do with a centerfire auto handgun.
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SEE post 263
Almost unbelievable but I believe it. From WWI it was investigated proven (found evidence) St York killed 7 Germans with 7 shots so I believe this.
IAhunter
Member
Based upon the decision making of FBI's lawyers and accountants around the 2016 Presidential election, this retired fed will go ahead and stay with my .40 S&W pistols for SD and HD. Any recent decision made by leaders at the FBI is probably the wrong one.
Chino74
Member
.45 ACP is a great round but not for everyone. A lot of younger folks look at 1911's & the .45 as 'old guy' platforms. As to it's effectiveness, it's been plenty effective since the year 1911 & the .45 Colt 'long Colt' to use the slang term, in the SAA format for years before that. In fact many of the older established calibers used over the last 150 years do just fine.
In todays world a lot of camps are focused on progressing power, velocity, hyper performing rounds,. the old stuff took care of things just fine.
In todays world a lot of camps are focused on progressing power, velocity, hyper performing rounds,. the old stuff took care of things just fine.
Ruger Nut
US Veteran
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