4516 vs. 4516-1 vs. 4516-2

[Catshooter]

Glad I could help 18, even if only a little. We carry on as best we can.


Cat

 

[Proliant]

I just got a used 4516 (no dash) and it has dual springs. I don't know if this was original or changed. It came with the box and EVERYTHING original including the original receipt. I cleaned it up (not that it needed it .... the man bought it new then had a stroke and his surviving wife sold it to me after it had reportedly sat in a safe for about 15 years) and put it back together. It shoots pretty much to point of aim at 15 and 25 yards. I had zero malfunctions .... So far I like it. I bought it on a whim, but it seems to compliment my 5906 very nicely.

 

[Catshooter]

18,

Wouldn't a 4516 no dash built up by the PC just the way they make the Shorty 45 be the cat's pjs? All steel would soften the push. Man, I would love one like that.


Cat

 

[18DAI]

Hi Catshooter,

A PC 4516 would be SWEET! Briley bushing and a match grade barrel. I don't know if you recall, but there WAS a PC 4516 made. The product code is in the SCSW, although no other mention is made of the gun. No details on what features it may have included either.

I became aware of the PC 4516 some years ago when a local S&W collector saw my 4516-3 in my holster at the courthouse. He inquired as to whether that was a Performance Center 4516. I asked him if he meant the PC Shorty 45. He replied no. He told me that in 1996 or 1997 the PC had made a 4516 and there was an article in a gunrag featuring that gun.

I posted here asking about it and member 45 CQB knew an instructor who worked for Glock who had one. She had previously been employed at S&W and purchased it there before leaving.

45 CQB also recalled a for sale ad in Shotgun news for a PC 4516. He tried running down the instructor to see if she could provide pics and details. As I recall he was unsucessful and the thread died.

Since SmithNut is back perhaps he knows or has heard of this gun.

Funny, yesterday my local dealer left me a voicemail seeing if I was interested in a LNIB 4516-2. Perhaps this is a sign. Regards 18DAI

It was a sign. It was like new. Original box and docs with two mags. I bought it. Now I have a dash 2 and a dash 3. Serial prefix VAL Anyone have the SCSW handy for a birthday lookup?

 

[18DAI]

I went home last night and pulled out the SCSW. In the list of Performance Center production codes and the models they correspond to is the following.

Product code - 170112 4516 7sh 3 1/2 GB DA SS (Pcct)

The 3 1/2 I find interesting. Unless it is a misprint that indicates the PC 4516 had a barrel length 1/4" shorter than the standard production models.

I've no idea what the "GB" and "(Pcct)" mean. Perhaps one of the experts will descend from Mount Springfield and enlighten the great unwashed with a decode and some details on this unicorn. Regards 18DAI

 

[charlie2t]

I bought a 4516 no dash when they first came out (Don't remember the year, but it was quite a while back) carried it for a duty weapon for several years and never had any problems with it. I still have it.

 

[tacotime]

Can the duel spring setup with the slim rod of the 4516-2 just be dropped right into the 4516-1 without other changes?

 

[JohnHL]

Can the duel spring setup with the slim rod of the 4516-2 just be dropped right into the 4516-1 without other changes?

Sorry, Tacotime. Unfortunately the answer is: No.
A special "bushing" or sleeve is pressed into the recoil spring tunnel to reduce the diameter of the hole in the dust cover the guide rod protrudes through. The outer spring of the dual spring set-up is the same diameter as the single spring so the tunnel remains the same.
Does this help?
John

 

[tacotime]

Yes, I was about to edit the post to say I forgot about the special sleeve. I don't suppose S&W will sell the sleeve... but I can't find a parts list to verify that is it not offered.

Curious though, other than the sleeve, does the duel spring/rod drop right in to the 4516-1?

Thanks.

 

[JohnHL]

Yes, I was about to edit the post to say I forgot about the special sleeve. I don't suppose S&W will sell the sleeve... but I can't find a parts list to verify that is it not offered.

Curious though, other than the sleeve, does the duel spring/rod drop right in to the 4516-1?

Thanks.

Yes.
I have not seen a part number listed anywhere for the bushing/sleeve.
I do think that a properly sized stainless steel washer would accomplish the same thing.
John

 

[BMCM]

Curious though, other than the sleeve, does the duel spring/rod drop right in to the 4516-1?

Thanks.

Well, here's a pic of the factory reducing bushing. From what I understand from speaking with S&W, there is NO part number for this. It was made solely to address functioning issues under warranty on certain dash-1 guns. Shouldn't be to difficult to have one made. Any competent machinist would be able to make one of these.

The nested spring setup will fit in a dash-1 gun. however, I'd hesitate to run the nested spring setup in a dash-1 without this bushing or some equivelant. The hole in the spring tunnel that accommodates the guiderod measures about 0.295". A new factory inner spring is about 0.310" or so. I would be concerned that under recoil forces & compression part of the inner spring could work it's way into the clearance left by the 0.236" guiderod in that big 0.290" hole and tie up the gun.

Now If you already have the slim 0.236" guiderod, you can either have a bushing made up or and use the nested springs or, skip the bushing and run a flatwire spring like I do.

I made a special guiderod for mine but it does run reliably with the 0.236 guiderod since the flatwire also does duty as the aforementioned bushing to keep everything aligned.

Cheers
Bill

 

[tacotime]

Good info, thanks. I may need to make the swap to the -2 rod/spacer. Pulled out the old 4516-1 and it did fail to feed one of 10 or 15 rounds - first time I recall it doing so.

So Bill, what makes up your special guide rod? I assume it is not the factory 4516-2 rod.

And is that flat spring a part for the 4516, or just a suitable one you found?

I wonder if I could I get a 4516-2 rod and use such a flat spring with no end bushing?

 

[BMCM]

So Bill, what makes up your special guide rod? I assume it is not the factory 4516-2 rod.

Nope it's a 4006CHP guiderod #903370000 turned down to a quarter inch diameter and shortened to fit and polished.

And is that flat spring a part for the 4516, or just a suitable one you found?

ISMI makes these for midsize Glocks. They fit perfectly in a 4516. Part numbers GLC-18 and GLC-20 for 18lb and 20lb respectively.

I wonder if I could I get a 4516-2 rod and use such a flat spring with no end bushing?

Yup, It works.

Cheers
Bill

 

[ColColt]

I just got around to reading this thread on one of my all time favorites and still recall not too many moons back having feeding problems with my -1 and after several posts, BMCM came up with the solution to my problem that still works today and I remain in his debt for instructing me about the possibility I had my recoil spring backwards and he was right. Nary a problem since I fixed the error of my ways.

 

[03Fatboy]

I did not realize a recoil spring could be put in backwards or there was a correct orientation. Can you elaborate on the correct position?

 

[ColColt]

I had bought a new Wolff recoil spring because I didn't know how old the other one was. In installing it, I put the larger end over the rod...wrong thing to do. The small end goes on first. It was creating FTF problems until I was enlightened on the proper way it goes on. It's tighter but it sure works better!!

 

[18DAI]

My dealer finally found me a LNIB 4516 no dash today. He says it still has the inspectors numbered stickers on the frame. He says the guy who sold it to him claims unfired since the factory. My dealer says it may very well be true.

I intend to see if the negatives I've heard and read about the much maligned 4516 no dash have any basis in fact. I'll post here about the pistol once I've had a chance to wring it out.

So, layaway. Again. Ramen noodles for lunch from now till right around Christmas. Again. I'm gun poor. Again.

Ramen noodles aren't that bad with a little bit of Tabasco though. Regards 18DAI

 

[ColColt]

I can never find something like that, although I did locate a Remington 700 BDL in .222 recently that had been a safe queen since the early 90's and it too had never been fired so, I guess I ought to consider myself lucky. I still dream of finding a 4506 NIB.

 

[03Fatboy]

I had bought a new Wolff recoil spring because I didn't know how old the other one was. In installing it, I put the larger end over the rod...wrong thing to do. The small end goes on first. It was creating FTF problems until I was enlightened on the proper way it goes on. It's tighter but it sure works better!!

Great, I'll have to pay closer attention when swapping recoil springs on new acquisitions. I have a new factory spring for my 4516-1 on the bench and will measure the diameter of both ends tonight.

Update: I just checked my -1 spring and my flat wire and they have the same diameter on both ends. Maybe it's a particular relative to Wolff.

 

[Dot_mdb]

18DAI,

Try Sriracha hot chili sauce by Huy Fong Foods, Inc.

Bill

My dealer finally found me a LNIB 4516 no dash today. He says it still has the inspectors numbered stickers on the frame. He says the guy who sold it to him claims unfired since the factory. My dealer says it may very well be true.

I intend to see if the negatives I've heard and read about the much maligned 4516 no dash have any basis in fact. I'll post here about the pistol once I've had a chance to wring it out.

So, layaway. Again. Ramen noodles for lunch from now till right around Christmas. Again. I'm gun poor. Again.

Ramen noodles aren't that bad with a little bit of Tabasco though. Regards 18DAI